To think traditions should be allowed to develop naturally

[Daisysbear]

as opposed to being force fed. I just see posts on here going 'no, no. MIL can't come this Christmas. We want to build our own traditions' 'SIL wants to buy DS an advent calendar but I want it to be my tradition' etc etc and it sounds a bit contrived and planned. Most of our family traditions were things that just happened one year, were repeated the following and before we knew it a new tradition had been created.

AIBU to think that traditions don't usually start out as 'traditions' but gradually become ones?

For us...

1. Advent calendars can come from whoever.
2. Stockings come from FC. There is only one FC so can only be one stocking and DH and I want to be the ones who choose/buy them.
3. PIL buy all their grandchildren a tree decoration every year (not sure what age that stops...if at all!) - that's their tradition but they go on the kids' artificial tree not my real one but that's because they rarely colour coordinate with our tree.
4. Our traditions centre more around Christmas Eve - after supper by candlelight we have hot chocolate and tree biscuits (homemade liebkuchen which the kids decorate) and read Christmas stories.
5. We put up the tree and decorate on Christmas Eve whilst scoffing celebrations or some such and watching a film.

So, stepping on the toes of stockings would be a big no-no for us. MIL did it one year when we were at theirs in the morning. DH had a quiet word to say not again. No drama and she understood.

You can have a tradition around a family advent calendar and still not get het up by a grandparent buying your child a chocolate advent calendar.

Togo back to the advent calendar one, your tradition can be to have one calendar from each set of grand parents. It can be that your tradition is that you have a special one st home and that's what you use every year.

However, unless this is something you have done since the first Christmas of your first child, this is not a family tradition from when you were a child. This is something you enjoy doing, hopefully you might have found a nice advent calendar and decided to use it every year. If by that time, MIL has already started to give the dcs a chocolate one, then I think it would be really sad to stop it and to have a go at her.
But that new nice advent calendar can become the family tradition for you.

Sometimes, what comes out hit me is this competitionbeyweem patents and grand parents to get the attention of the dcs and to look like the 'cool' one or the 'best' one on the eye of the child. Which, tbh is just bonkers.

Both my mother and m in l buy dd an advent calendar. M in l also does dd her bday cake. Christmas is controlled by the in laws. However, we have managed a few family traditions - putting up the tree, certain DVDs, stockings, going to a church service.

Re the stocking one - I don't see the issue with grandparents have a Christmas stocking in their house filled with presents from granny and granddad - not from Santa.
As I said, my parents did/do it and it is a tradition beloved by their grandchildren.

"

You can have a tradition around a family advent calendar and still not get het up by a grandparent buying your child a chocolate advent calendar." [Quote]

I agree. Some people seem to get so tied up in the idea of tradition, that it seems to become more a dictator than a pleasant custom.

I'm really saddened at the way many posters are so horrible about their M'sIL at the moment. No visits after the birth for weeks, getting stressed out about Christmas stockings, advent calendars etc for children so young they won't remember anyway. I have two sons, early twenties, I expect I'll be a MiL before too long. I hope my daughters in law are nicer than some of the mean people posting on here at present.

When I read some of these post I do wonder if some posters will be in a few years complaining of favouritism of grandchildren. Whilst a parent may choose to limit GP involvement wether it be time/ presents/ treats how do this then fit it with present or future grandchildren of other siblings. I have read numerous post with wanting limits or wanting GP to take a step back but how does this equate when another sibling wanting all this input, without one child getting more than another. Or does one parent(s) not wanting as an example a second stocking mean all other GC are not allowed one as well?

OP - reading your last post, I guess there's a difference between 2 different types of traditions - the sort you are talking about are the evolving ones ,but those are the ones that make christmas special when you have older DCs. Things like taking them to see Father Christmas, doing the stocking etc, are special for parents to do when DCs are still small and believe in magic because of their excitment around them. And if you say, have a 4 year old, they really aren't old enough to have 'evolved traditions' yet.

The evolved traditions are the ones that will last into adulthood, but that doesn't make them more important than the 'magic' ones when your DCs are still in the stage of enjoying the magic of christmas. It's such a relatively short window when they understand and believe - it's nice to be able to look back and remember having done XYZ, not looking back and regretting you didn't get to do XYZ because your Mum/Dad/MIL/FIL wanted to do it/do a slightly different tradition and now it's too late.

I think perhaps parents might feel that as they are there for their DCs through all the rubbishy stuff - illness, tantrums, homework , nagging etc then they might be allowed to do some of the nice stuff too.

Surely the grandparents would give presents to all the grandkids but not claim they are from Santa?
The grandparents wouldnt have time to ask for each grandchild one day a week when they have 9 of them.

I agree Dinosaurs. I think it's important for parents to enjoy a lot of the traditional Christmas activities with their children.
But some parents just take it too far in my opinion and practically elbow the GPs out of the picture. They don't seem to be allowed to do anything of any significance with their GC or share in any of the experiences. For instance, a grandparent buying a grandchild an Advent Calendar is not a big deal. The child can have two calendars, or the Advent Calendar can be bought by granny but will still be opened with the parents. With some parents it doesn't seem to be so much about sharing the experience, but 'owning' it and being 'in control' of it.

Some people seem to get so tied up in the idea of tradition, that it seems to become more a dictator than a pleasant custom

A stocking is not a tradition.

Your mixing up the tradition and necessities for a classic uk Christmas.

Two stocking is duplication.

why.

They don't seem to be allowed to do anything of any significance with their GC or share in any of the experiences

But, Daisy, in your book, significant experiences seem to only be calender's and stockings.

why? are these things really significant to you>

I am struggling to understand why all the other activities they could do, are not being mentioned.

No Drastic, but grandparents having stockings hanging by their fireplace with sweets or presents for the children every year when they come to visit is a tradition. It's not a duplication. One stocking is from Santa, the other is from granny and granddad.
And since when has a stocking been a 'necessity'? Some kids have one (or two) some kids don't get one at all, their presents come in different ways.

I'm not mixing up anything, but you seem to be getting rather agitated.

Drastic

Cut it out. I used the advent calendar and stocking examples in my opening post because I had to use some example. I then gave two totally different examples in a subsequent post.

My big problem with the my kids my way or the highway philosophy is that as a general attitude it pushes people out, creates barriers and it's just an unpleasant overall sentiment.

When I was a kid, it would never have occurred to either set of grandparents to do anything at all for us. We didn't have advent calendars, multiple sets of presents, nobody was all that pushed about getting time with us. Families that did that kind of thing were strictly fantasy off foreign telly. We would have been thrilled if anyone had wanted to give us a gift or bring us anywhere. But they never did. So I suppose I find a wealth of people vying with each other to give children nice treats at Christmas being a dreadful, oppressive thing hard to understand.

But just to please you Drastic, I have heard parents say that they want to be the ones to bring the children to the panto, ice skating on Christmas Eve, Santa's Cabin etc etc etc. You can substitute those for advent calendars and stockings if you wish. My point re traditions still stands.

I understand this elbowing out of grandparents is upsetting and 2 advent calendar are no big deal. If we didn't discuss it in our family, we'd end up with 8 calendars though (big and close family).

I had to put a stop to the absolutely overwhelming amount of presents, I know that all grandparents, great grandparents and aunties/ uncles want to have some Christmas/ Easter magic and young children really help with that.

However, we did at a point feel a bit like a travelling circus of happiness-performing monkeys dragging the kids from visit to visit to get yet more stuff. I love them all dearly and I know all of this was done with love and good intentions, but there can be too much of a good thing.

'A stocking is not a tradition.

Your mixing up the tradition and necessities for a classic uk Christmas.'

Eh? I think you're a bit mixed up.

A stocking is a tradition that forms part of a 'classic' Christmas. No matter which way you look at it. Just as turkey and presents are also traditions.

some traditions are about furthering ones own self interests.

some are about cementing social relationships.

The first tend to be engineered, the second evolve naturally as part of family life.

Often what happens is that you get a close, happy family unit who have been a unit of four, or five, or six for years and years.

Then one of the children gets married and has children of their own. Let's say it's a son. So, do we now have a happy family unit that's been enlarged to include a DiL and a DGC? Or do we have a new happy family unit that's split off from the original one?

That's what the fighting is about, imo. Does the mother of the original unit regard herself still as the prime mover of the family Christmas? Or do the new family unit get to call the shots about what happens to the three of them?

It's not that stockings and advent calendars are important in themselves but it's a signifier of whether the new family are able to 'break away' and start to build bonds between themselves, or whether the grandparent is always trying to annex them to be part of the larger group (of which she is head).

Christmas "traditions" are the glue that binds families together and it's not surprising that new families want to start them when they're just starting out together - some will stick and some won't, but all traditions had to be done a first time.

People who are dismissive of this kind of conflict obviously haven't experienced it for themselves. Which surprises me, tbh, because it must happen in most families at some time or another.

Sadly not all families are perfect, and these situations are usually created by poor communication, or people trying to wind each other up. The OP on the other thread said she had told her MIL about her plans to do these things herself, and MIL went out and did it anyway.
My MIL would have done exactly the same, and sadly, it was not out of genuine love for my children (she couldn't actually care less about spending time with them!), it was so she could brag to her friends about what a wonderful GM she was.
Some things stir up hurtful emotions and memories, and maybe that's more the issue.

under ops dodgy classification she talks about evolving trads.

You have stockings or not, its not something that evolves, as given in later examples about cheese on toast.

Cut it out

I think its you who is getting agitated.

But just to please you Drastic, I have heard parents say that they want to be the ones to bring the children to the panto, ice skating on Christmas Eve, Santa's Cabin etc etc etc. You can substitute those for advent calendars and stockings if you wish. My point re traditions still stands

Even then ^ there is a endless list of wonderous activities to do.

I guess what your really saying is - no matter what GP want to do, just let them.

GP want to do stockings, calenders, hell, they want to do all FC presents now, as well as their own, let them do it all, panto, ice skating, grotto, just totally knock the parents out the way, esp the DILS, they are after all just the breeder are they not.