to ask about the general attitude to children with behavioural differences

[Francoitalialan]

Inspired by another thread, if you have ordinary non-special needs kids, especially of primary age, and there's a child at school displaying behaviour that's different to the norm, what conclusion do you reach?

Options may include

Not nice
Nasty
Product of crap parents
Rude
Spiteful
Dim
Annoying
Irritating
And also
Autistic spectrum disorder
Attention deficit disorder
Hyperactivity
Anxiety disorder
Dyspraxia
Sensory processing disorder
Auditory processing Disorder
Misphonia
Tourette's

Ad Infinitum.

Where do you generally place your opinion and why?

Franco your original post looked like it was asking parents of non SN children what their thoughts were when they saw a child behaving differently. And it looks like pinot has given you an example of one parent's ideas.

I've learned a LOT from reading assorted threads on MN. To be honest SN would never have crossed my mind previously. If I saw a child having a 'tantrum' I'd have thought it was bad behaviour but wouldn't have necessarily blamed the parent. All children can have 'moments' and most parents are doing their best. Even my practically perfect DC can be vile occasionally and I've not always done the best thing either. I've had to learn as I've gone along.

The good thing about the MN campaign about 'this is my child' is that it has opened my eyes and made me stop and think about why a child might be behaving like that. I've read threads about DC with sensory issues not being able to have other people sit next to them. As I was squashed on the tram into Manchester it made me realise what a logistical nightmare it must be for some parents to be able to get their DC to school whilst avoiding situations that might cause a meltdown. Never occurred to me before as I'd never come across sensory issues in RL.

So nowadays my response would be different. Rather than blithely getting on with my own life oblivious to children other than DC's friends I wish I'd been more mindful of those that needed a hand socialising. And their mums too.

It's too late to do anything about that now, but I am trying to open my DC's eyes too. I'm trying to teach them not to automatically judge someone from their current behaviour when you don't know the background.

Pinot gave an example after 200 + posts, the discussion had moved on. Her posts were deleted by MNHQ, you don't need to defend her totally inappropriate responses!

I don't know enough about children with SN but if it is known that the child is violent or disruptive enough to impact the other childrens education I think other forms of schooling need to be provided for the benefit of all involved.

Why is it always suggested that violent children to be sent off to special schools?

Is it OK for them to be violent to my DD or something?

NiMBYism IMO.

Yes the children could benefit from the support in a special school but the real reason it is suggested is just to get them away from ones NT kid.

My dd started special school this year, she's year 11! She was finally broken by the attitudes of the vast majority of NT girls in high school. Total lack of empathy for anyone that didn't fit the mould. That applied to teachers too.

In the first term the children at special school showed her more affection and attention than in all her years at MS. Interestingly she hasn't been physically abused by another child!

As a parent of a child with SN neither DH or I feel guilty. We have always done the best we can for our DC. DS having SNs doesn't change that. It is exhausting, exasperating and expensive. What makes it bearable is that I don't feel in the least bit guilty.

DS will be in a special school if his hearing is below 75%. We have looked around already so when the time comes we have a good idea of provisions available. From what I have seen mixing behavioral (ie dangerous behaviors) and learning disabilities is a disaster. The special schools we have visited here in NJ and NY all run separate programs for the two different groups.

Why is it always suggested that violent children to be sent off to special schools?

SN schools have better support. Better support = better behavior.

If a violent SN child when to the same school as your daughter, there would be well trained teachers to understand when he was getting upset and when to separate him to calm down for a moment. Public schools don't have that type of support, training, or small class size to give children attention they need.

You already know this, or your daughter wouldn't be in a special school. Quit pretending to be offended, by a question you damn well know the answer to.

A few pages have gone but I'll still reply. I know he's not statemented as the head told me. School has given us info re this dc (with parent permission) due to the situation and his behaviour towards my dd. She's 4 and he's 8 - he had to be dragged off her. School funds 1.1 as they feel it's the only safe option.

And what about all the violent children who don't have sn?

They still need a separate level of support that public schools aren't equipped to provide.

It doesn't matter if he's violent due to abuse or to SN, except to get him out of an abusive situation. It matters that he has people that are trained to work with him and help him work through his/her anger.

I agree.

But I don't think that is the reason a lot of people suggest it

And that was my whole point.

So quit misinterpreting me and snarking at me.

X posted. Was addressing senpai.

I'm place marking, interestingly a friend of mine told me her son has been diagnosed with Aspergers today. I'd like to read this thread more tomorrow

Of course I know the set up of special schools. But people who suggest them generally only give a shit about the kids being somewhere else away from their own children.

Is that clear enough yet?

If I am snappy it's because of your "damn wells" and "quits" fired at me along with a bit of patronising.

Well then the school need to apply for support then

In principle, yes.

However, doing a quick game of numbers, it costs less to send a child to a school where a trained person can work with 2-3 kids at a time, and help in a broader sense with more. Instead of hiring a trained person who can only work with one at the school.

They may try to save money by hiring someone who isn't as qualified or has same years experience as a SN teacher would. Most times, they just don't have the funding to hire good people, and the good people work at the good schools who pay well, iykwim.

Fanjo You're deliberately working yourself up more with each successive post. You have only yourself to blame for that, as your first response was perfectly calm.

You asked a question you already knew the answer to. You already know that you cannot have children being violent to each other. You already know that if a child is continuously violent he can't stay in the school, because the other children are entitled to a safe environment.

You've already made it clear you would not want someone being violent towards your own DD. If she was coming home everyday with bruises, you really expect me to believe that you wouldn't be right up on the HM's ass telling them to keep your child safe? The only difference is that your child goes to a school equipped to handle those situations. But you are lying through your teeth if your first concern was not your DD.

Parents of NT kids feel the same way about their children as you do about your child.

Whatever

I don't think it quite works like that! If it did then parents wouldn't have to fight for their dc to be given a place in a sn rather than mainstream with 1:1

This --> They may try to save money by hiring someone who isn't as qualified or has same years experience as a SN teacher would. Most times, they just don't have the funding to hire good people, and the good people work at the good schools who pay well, iykwim.

They don't have money to hire good people for 1:1 is what I was getting at.

It costs more to send a child to a SN school than hire a shoddy 1:1 person.

I do agree schools need a major overhaul, but I was addressing why people say send those kids to special schools instead of more 1:1's. They're not hiring good 1:1's and it's doesn't work out unless it's a mild LD that requires extra tutoring to help them out.

mother A statement only applies to schooling – it’s a statement of special educational needs. Other kinds of support for children with disabilities and their families are provided by NHS, benefits, social services or specialist charities and those don’t (usually) come under a statement. Statementing does not automatically follow diagnosis, the statement has to be applied for (I think by the school) and some children are well supported in school without one.

Hound there are probably support services you could access even if you have a high income. The trouble is it all varies so much from place to place – what is available, who provides it, and how to access it – so it’s an effort just to track things down. For example we have a couple of different respite and babysitting services in my area for children with disabilities and SN, one of which is offered by a charity and parents pay on a sliding scale of income, and they were willing to build up a relationship with some very challenging children. It took me a lot of time and hard work to find out what was available and I got knocked back from some of the things I applied for (I didn’t qualify for any council-funded respite) but it was worth working on it, bit by bit, over time. DS did get a place on an ASC-specialist summer playscheme.

Advice lines may be able to give you a few pointers, and the National Autistic Society website has quite a lot of info (though it goes out of date fast - another problem is that services come and go and things change all the time!) Another big source of helpful local information and support is other parents of children with similar disabilities, so if there’s an NAS meeting near you it might be worth getting there if possible.

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time and I hope things get better

a lot of behaviours are enhanced by guilt the parent feels.

Certainly parenting gets much easier once you stop feeling guilty about not doing what other parents think you should be doing, and just get on with doing what you know you need to do for your child. In my experience anyway.

franco It's a long thread and I’ve lost track a bit as to whether your own child has SN / challenging behaviour? If so then my advice would be that (to be honest) it isn’t worth worrying much about what other parents think. There isn't one “general attitude” and even if there was you’d still have to get your head down and get on with it regardless of the nay-sayers. You’ll pribably find some parents “get it” and others don’t and some never will. It helps if you can connect with the ones who do!