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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think the WEP should not be campaigning for men to be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards?

642 replies

CallaLilli · 24/11/2015 11:54

I was just having a look at some of the objectives for the WEP and noticed they have a Stand Up for Dads campaign. Now whilst I agree with a lot of what they say on that page, one of the things they say is:

“hospitals don’t seem to take dads seriously. Many treat new fathers and new co-parents as visitors who have to stick to visiting hours or at best sleep in a chair. All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.”

Countless women on MN have spoken of their experiences on postnatal wards and the majority of them have said that they would not want men staying on the ward 24/7, at a time when they feel at their most vulnerable. Am I BU to think that a party set up for women should be more considerate of what women want?

OP posts:
Junosmum · 24/11/2015 12:58

Reading this thread is making me really dread post birth even more than I was. Unfortunately I have no choice - I'm not able to have a home birth due to other health issues and my hospital doesn't have private rooms. Luckily they have a partners visiting policy of 8 - 8, so no men on ward at night but even so, I'd much rather my dp was restricted 2 x 2 hours than I was subjected to 10 other men for 12 hours.

mouldycheesefan · 24/11/2015 13:03

I had a private room and was in hospital for a month after giving birth due to various issues but dh couldn't stay over. Probably for the best I don't think it's necessary or appropriate, you will be home soon enough together, most women are iin for a night or two anyway.

Would you have a relative stay over for any other operation or medical procedures? No!

INickedAName · 24/11/2015 13:04

mrsjanedoe

Many women find vaginal examinations, smears etc traumatic because of past abuse, I'm don't think it comes from worry about the doctor getting off on it, but the experience can be triggering.

I'm not saying that's what Vestal meant, but there are women find male (and sometimes any) docs being at the fanny end upsetting and triggering, with some women putting their own health at risk to avoid those situations (not having smears for eg)

Just wanted to mention it's not always because of worries the doc is perving.

mouldycheesefan · 24/11/2015 13:05

At your most vulnerable you want as few people around as possible. Upset ears are visitors and should be treated as such. Nobody failed to bond with their child because they were restricted to visiting hours!

mouldycheesefan · 24/11/2015 13:06

Upset eears? Fathers!

murmuration · 24/11/2015 13:06

When I first heard about the idea of partners staying, I thought it was great, but then I read stuff on MN and particularly about the risk to abused women that changed my mind. I just hadn't been thinking.

An option to stay in a private room would be good, but then only if the woman would have a chance without a partner to specify if she really wanted that. I had a private room and DH was allowed to be there only 2 hrs/day, so that is clearly not a universal allowed thing anyway.

Honestly, fix the postnatal care first. My experience was horrendous, and the reason I initially thought, "Yes, I could have desperately used DH!" was that it meant I wouldn't have been left with someone who refused to hand me my crying baby at night because 'she couldn't possibly be hungry yet' and then just leave and never came back while I listened to my newborn wail for me; I wouldn't have been told by one person to not get up until they removed the catheter and then yelled at by someone else for 'not being up and around' (never mind I actually couldn't physically walk anyway due to completely different issues); I wouldn't have been left with a catheter full of urine to the extent that it was painful and people keep saying, "we'll get that out I'll be right back" and no one respond to me again for hours; I wouldn't have been prevented from having my medication that actually gives me a reasonable quality of life (thank heavens DH got there and was able to get it for me before it got really bad); I wouldn't have been left hungry for three days while establishing breastfeeding because no one listened to the fact that I couldn't walk and so couldn't get to the place food came from (I think I had a few pieces of toast in those three days). All those things DH could have advocated for me, left the room and found someone to help, or simply gotten for me. But you know what else would have fixed it? Proper postnatal care.

mrsjanedoe · 24/11/2015 13:10

thank you INickedAName for a pertinent and helpful comment.

It's a fair point. The original post didn't give me this impression, but I understand what you are saying!

Threesquids · 24/11/2015 13:12

I had my DS2 in hospital 4 months ago.

I was on a ward with 4 other beds, and opposite was a lady who had a csection 4 days previously.

That night, her mother managed to sneak in and stay the night. Whilst with her daughter, the pair of them had their phones ringing, chatting loudly (about the father being idle mainly) ALL NIGHT.

I had a csection earlier on that day, my baby was sleeping but I could not rest because of their noise. I told the nursing staff who approached her, but she made several excuses and in the end was forgotten about.

The following morning, the lady with the breakfast trolley came round and opened the curtains to find them top and tail in bed. The mother demanded breakfast (and was refused)

By this time I was absolutely shattered and livid.

I should also point out that I had severe pre-eclampsia (had seizures in previous pregnancies) and this was not helpful to my recovery.

I ended up asking to be let home the same day (just 24 hours after my csection) as I couldn't bear for another night of it!

It's not just about fathers, it's about anyone else staying.

Because this woman had been up chatting with her mum all night, she was too 'tired' apparently to visit her baby in SCBU.

BakedPotatoChangedMyLife · 24/11/2015 13:13

My first baby is due in January and im glad my hospital has a no partners overnight rule. My lovely supportive DH is just another stranger to the other women on the ward. Could be naive but I do think it's good for at least one of us to get a night's sleep before baby comes home? Having said all that I do worry about staffing levels, ringing the buzzer and no-one coming.

chillycurtains · 24/11/2015 13:16

YANBU. Having men on wards does not seem to be the perferred option for most women. This is not just based on MN threads. I can't see why WEP would support such a controversial policy. Imo the needs of women who don't want men in the wards actually trump the needs of women who do want their partner there. It is dangerous in terms of progressing back to women who have not planned a home birth staying at home through fear of having men they don't know imposed on them during a vunerable time.

There are so many other important issues for women that WEP could be using their time and resources to support.

MySordidCakeSecret · 24/11/2015 13:20

yanbu i hated visiting hours in the maternity ward especially the last time round. When other women's partners were there i felt very uncomfortable. I was having to waddle around in the hospital nightie with very thick sanitary towels, struggling to get changed and breastfeed and then also intimate examinations/assistance. Please consider the needs of everyone i don't think having your partner with you is a need considering the support of staff and that there are visiting hours in place.

mouldycheesefan · 24/11/2015 13:22

Yes buzzers go unanswered when they are dealing with an emergency but if you need midwife or nurse at night it's unlikely to be something your dh could help with anyway and you can always go and find somebody.

cdtaylornats · 24/11/2015 13:22

If the WEP didn't campaign for this they would be accused of being the Womans Superiority Party.

BuffytheScaryFeministBOO · 24/11/2015 13:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MySordidCakeSecret · 24/11/2015 13:24

Also similar experiences of men partner's playing with phones/loud conversations.. and one man who less than 24 hours after giving birth tried to engage in a politicl discussion with me in the visitors room Confused

LineyReborn · 24/11/2015 13:31

mouldy All I wanted was some help. I had had pre-eclampsia, I was attached to a drip, my new baby was crying and I wanted to hold her, but I had stitches and it hurt to move, I needed to go to the loo and it was 3am. Also I was hungry.

When I rang the buzzer a midwife appeared eventually and snapped, 'Yes what is it?'

I actually cried.

Hygge · 24/11/2015 13:33

I was in a ward of four, all beds full, for two nights.

The woman next to me was very ill, and woefully neglected by the nursing staff. Who at one point told her off for not feeding her baby when the poor woman couldn't actually move to pick her child up. She'd been pressing her buzzer for ages and nobody came. I couldn't help her as I couldn't move, and her baby was bottle fed anyway and she needed someone to bring it to her.

I couldn't walk, which was why they kept me in. If DH was there to hold onto me, I could shuffle slightly. DS was born with slight jaundice, and we had trouble with feeding at first, so they kept us in.

I'd say that both of us could have done with 24/7 help but I'm glad it wasn't via having men/partners/friends/relatives on the ward with us.

Because the woman opposite me had the most vile thug of a partner, and he was there from 8am to 8pm, mostly I think so he could bring in their other children with him and not have to take care of them himself alone at home.

They had the TV headphones blearing all the time for the children, phone's going, loud conversations, arguments, him in and out to the car park every five minutes to smoke and coming back absolutely stinking of more than one kind of smoke.

He kept barging through the curtains to get to the sink and every single time he did he came into my space rather than walk around to give me privacy.

And then he threatened a doctor.

All three other women insisted on having their curtains closed all the time when their visitors were there. They only actually opened them when the visitors were gone. I was in the corner furthest from the window but closest to the sink. DS had jaundice and they said he needed natural light, but he didn't bloody get any because of the need for visitors privacy.

The doctor was making his way through the curtain wall and knocked a jug of water, and Dad of the Year was at this throat screaming about how he'd nearly hit the baby. Which he didn't, the baby was in the cot at the other side of the bed when the curtains were opened.

He was itching for a fight, and the poor doctor caught the brunt of his aggression.

I was terrified the entire time I was in there, either that he would kick off again and attack somebody or that DH would say something to him about behaving himself and he'd attack DH.

When he was ranting at that doctor I was expecting two grown men to come crashing through the curtains and fall on me and DS. I was trapped in a chair at the time, unable to walk, struggling to breast feed, terrified that my baby would be hurt by some aggressive fucker who was using the hospital as a day out.

We were trapped, and it was terrifying.

He was not there to support his partner. But if they'd let him stay 24/7 he would have been there. Except for his smoking trips and the visit to the pub over the road.

I should not have had to put up with that man on the ward at any time. He wasn't fit to be there and his partner's right to have her OH with her should not have come before three other women's rights to have a peaceful recovery time with no threats of violence or the stink of cannabis and beer coming through the curtains.

I was longing for 8pm both days I was in there. It ruined my time with my visitors because I was on edge from his behaviour and bad language and threats. If he'd been allowed to stay overnight I would have gone home on that first day, even though we were not ready. I think we probably should have stayed a little longer than we actually did but I was just too scared and upset to stay any longer.

mouldycheesefan · 24/11/2015 13:35

More staff is the answer to the non buzzer answering not partners staying.

And staff who are sympathetic not snappy.

SchnitzelVonKrumm · 24/11/2015 13:36

When DC2 was born the ward was like a bloody bazaaar. The woman next to me had about 20 family members who refused to leave when asked - they were there til about midnight and then she spent the night phoning people in her home country to tell them about the baby ("HELLO AUNTIE? The baby is here... YES, THE BABY IS HERE... THE BABY, YES.")

DC3 was born during the swine flu scare. ALL visitors except fathers were banned from the post-natal ward, and the dads were quite restricted. It was bliss. The quality of care was much better too because the midwives weren't wasting time on crowd control.

BakedPotatoChangedMyLife · 24/11/2015 13:40

mouldy how can you go and find someone if you're bed bound after a c section?!

ExConstance · 24/11/2015 13:42

YABU, the views on Mumsnet seldom reflect those of society as a whole. Ideally there should be single rooms for all new mothers, I had DS2 at home because I could not face the thought of sharing with others. I would find it far worse actually to be sharing with a bunch of women who wanted to discuss their stitches and other unpleasant stuff etc. than a quiet man in a chair. If that can't be done then they could divide the wards up as to one with fathers present and one without.

mouldycheesefan · 24/11/2015 13:43

YOu can't! That's why more staff are needed on post natal wards. Rather than partners.

CallaLilli · 24/11/2015 13:45

I would find it far worse actually to be sharing with a bunch of women who wanted to discuss their stitches and other unpleasant stuff etc. than a quiet man in a chair.

But that's just the point - I'm sure we all have nice considerate and quiet partners. But not everyone does. Would you want to share a room with a man like the one in Hygge's post?

OP posts:
FannyTheChampionOfTheWorld · 24/11/2015 13:50

If that can't be done then they could divide the wards up as to one with fathers present and one without.

Unlikely. What's going to happen when the no-men ward is full and a woman who doesn't want to share with men needs postnatal care? Which will be common enough, since we don't exactly have shitloads of spare capacity on postnatal wards now. This idea doesn't work, can't work in an environment where we have so few single rooms.

DowntonDiva · 24/11/2015 13:51

One of the main criteria for my choice of hospital was allowing dp to stay overnight with me on the postnatal ward. We are travelling across London potential 90 minutes in traffic.

Inconsiderate, rude or behaviour which makes other women feel uncomfortable or vulnerable is totally unacceptable, and no man should be allowed to stay on the ward if they do so. However I don't believe in holding all men to this standard and those exceptions should be dealt with.