To think the WEP should not be campaigning for men to be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards?

[CallaLilli]

I was just having a look at some of the objectives for the WEP and noticed they have a Stand Up for Dads campaign. Now whilst I agree with a lot of what they say on that page, one of the things they say is:

“hospitals don’t seem to take dads seriously. Many treat new fathers and new co-parents as visitors who have to stick to visiting hours or at best sleep in a chair. All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.”

Countless women on MN have spoken of their experiences on postnatal wards and the majority of them have said that they would not want men staying on the ward 24/7, at a time when they feel at their most vulnerable. Am I BU to think that a party set up for women should be more considerate of what women want?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/2502963-Guest-post-Sandi-Toksvig-The-time-is-right-for-the-Womens-Equality-Party?

I've read on threads on here on the same topic where a poster was called disgusting by another patients dh for leaving blood clot in the toilet, she was waiting for staff to check it.

Posters have said they have been gawped at while trying to breastfeed.

Some partners took the bed while the woman is sleeping in the chair.

Some partners took the meal intended for the patient.

Some partners had/attempted to have sex with their wives who had not long given birth.

Some partners have opened curtains to look.

Some partners have asked other mums to shut their baby up.

Some partners insisted midwives stood what they are doing to go and do what he wants doing.

I'm sure this thread will fill with the same stories.

If this stuff goes on I don't think partners should be able to stay. Midwives haves enough to do without having to challenge abusive partners.

I understand why some women would like their dhs with them all the time, and why not having them there might cause upset and anxiety, but women are vulnerable after giving birth, some women will have suffered various kinds of abuse I think it's massively unfair for them to have to share wards with men who are not patients.

My first birth was traumatic, I was shitting myself when I had dd, but while I know my dh is lovely and safe, other women don't, he'd feel uncomfortable being around women feeling vulnerable, there's no way he would have stayed even if he could, because he knows it could be upsetting to others. I was still extremely anxious and nervous but other men there would have made it much more worse.

Women need to feel and be safe and comfortable after giving birth, in private rooms it might be ok,( could these be provided for women with a genuine need for a partner ? ) but I don't think it's a good idea in shared wards.

I had a similar crap experience to VanillaRadio. Pretty much everything was too much trouble for the midwives and staff.

That's why some women felt they needed their partners there.

I'm against partners staying overnight - men or women. When I was in there were plenty of civilised partners who respected privacy, but also many who didn't & that was just in visiting times.
I had a private room (thankfully) but I could still here the room next door playing music all bloody day.

Extra support should be available, but don't agree that partners having overnight stays are the best way to achieve this.

So YANBU :)

I think the proposal of one ward where well Men can stay and another ward where ill women can recover from giving birth in peace without having to think of everyone else.

I had a friend who was on an antenatal ward being induced recently. The woman she was sharing a room with had her entire family with her the whole time she was there, making noisy conversation, and even after she’d been taken to the labour ward her family remained in the room and took it in turns to sleep on the bed! Not a single member of staff came and kicked them out! And this was an antenatal ward, it must be several times worse when it’s postnatal.

I could not have coped without my DH with me overnight. I couldnt pick up DS, I couldn't do anything for myself, and there were nowhere near enough midwives around to help, and when they did they were flipping grumpy.

there were curtains - I never once felt like other people were looking at me. Maybe this was just my ward.

The main thing I hated about the post natal ward was the flipping noise of babies! (obvs DS was an angel....)

gosh I wouldn't want a room with men staying over, its herd enough to get any quiet time as it is. and the idea of random men being around when you are trying to BF for the first time NO

Fine with this, provided that the WEP campaigns for the vast overhaul of maternity services that this will require-single occupancy rooms, proper protocols ensuring all patients are cared for by adequate numbers of doctors and nurses and healthcare assistants, not their partners-to be put in place first.

Surely you canvass the views of the women you seek to represent before making these statements?

Apparently, the WEP also asked men their opinions. I remember something like that being said either in the Guest Post by the WEP, or in one of their answers in the thread.

So ... they asked men. Whom they apparently also want to represent. Which makes their party rather meaningless.

Like other people here, I do not think that men should be allowed overnight in rooms shared by women. It goes against common sense. Youth Hostels do not allow boyfriends in girl rooms. If you want to be with your boyfriend, you pay for a hotel, or go to a Youth Hostel where you can get rooms for two.

Similarly, if you want your husband to stay overnight in hospital, you pay for a room of your own.

Personally, I think maternity wards are a horror, and if I ever give birth, I will do everything in my power to do a homebirth with midwife.
That's what the WEP should campaign for: Access to home birth for all women who want it. (I am under the impression that the book and TV series "Call the Midwife" is historical and nowadays, hospital birth is the norm)
If you give birth at home, you can have your husband with you all you want.

You also don't have male doctors staring at your genitals while you give birth. (Some may be fine with that; that's their choice, but I would not want that.)

YANBU. They appear to do a nice line in promoting the presence of people with penises around vulnerable women, whether the women want them to be there or not. Fuck em.

I completely get that the birth of a child is the (re)birth of a family, and ideally that whole family should be treasured and supported at this time.

But in reality, in our resource-starved NHS, the absolute priority is the safety and wellbeing of individual patients. I know most MNetters have lovely partners who would act respectfully in wards, but many of us have witnessed very unlovely behaviour from male partners on wards. I'm not just talking about abusive behaviour - even just thoughtless chatting and phone calls late at night is a level of intrusion that postnatal women should be protected from.

YABU. It's fine for an organization to have a different view from you and campaign for it. In fact it's the heart of democracy for that to happen.

I know postnatal care is pretty dire - but rather than just give in to this, maybe the WEP should be campaigning to improve that, rather than plug the gaps by allowing partners free access to postnatal wards.

Some years ago, my dp spent a week on a gynae ward. A very young East European girl in the next bed was flanked by two scary-looking men every visiting time - at other times they waited in the corridor outside. They looked like they were guarding her. One other patient spoke her language and she kept crying and saying the girl was in a very bad situation. People talked to the staff, but of course they couldn't tell us what if anything they were doing about it. I always remember those men, and think: how would it feel to lie in a postnatal ward with them on the other side of the curtains, all through the night? They were the most sinister looking men I have ever seen.

@Boom: The problem with that that the WEP pretends to be feminst. People usually consider it dishonest when politicians lie, even though it is a well known fact that they lie all the time.

It is not unreasonable to expect that a "Women's Equality Party" should be feminist.

I doubt people would complain about it so much if it were called "Men's Privilege Party" or somesuch.

Should this party not be renamed 'The People's Equality Party, With Some People Being More Equal Than Others' sort of thing?

On one if the other threads it was mentioned that the time alone on a postnatal ward is often the few chances abused women get to disclose away from their abusive partner and make steps to exit, I don't know how common that is but it's worrying that women might not be able to find a safe time to make their exit. I also wouldn't want to share any space with her dh, let alone when I may be undressed and vulnerable.

Separate wards, one for men to stay, and one for men to not,sounds good in theory, but if there are so many cuts, I can't see them funding to open and staff another ward at the moment.

Maybe private rooms for those who have a genuine need, such as a pp who was very poorly. Or female only partners, friends, mums, sisters to stay overnight? I still would feel it's an extra strain to keep people who are not patients, but maybe women would feel less uncomfortable being around other women?

I know that not everyone has female family members or friends who could be there, but equally, many women do not have a dh or dp to be there either. It's sounds like that no overnight stays (other than special circumstance) is more practical?

(I don't know how) but we should put a stop to these horrendous communal wards and have access to private rooms, at least semi-private, at least when you pay for them! There was never one available when I needed one, it's disgraceful.
Other European countries manage, maybe lets have a look how?

Then, we should have enough nurses and midwives available to help on post natal wards. I don't blame them at all, the staff shortage is not their fault. In my experience, after traumatic emergency c-section, unable to move, you are on your own. Husband available could at least change nappies, feed baby and help.

Communal wards should be a thing of the past, they are a disgrace.

But there are feminists who think men should be allowed on wards. Even that the exclusion of men from wards and the way they are sidelined during pregnancy is a part of what creates such glaring gender discrepancies in households with children.

You also don't have male doctors staring at your genitals while you give birth. (Some may be fine with that; that's their choice, but I would not want that.)

I cannot believe someone wrote that! They are trained professional, here to help and do a job, there is absolutely no confusion between a woman giving birth and a pornographic show! No-one is staring at anyone bits! How can someone even think that. I am speechless.

Whilst we are there, where do you stand on lesbian doctors and surgeons?

WEP should be campaigning for an overhaul of maternity services so that there are enough staff to care for women on post-natal wards. This is a terrible, terrible idea which, once again, just hasn't been thought through properly.

Surely you canvass the views of the women you seek to represent before making these statements?

They probably did do, but it a very suggestive way. Ie, In your own specific case, would you have liked your partner to be able to stay?

OP, YANBU. It is wrong.

hiddenhome2 - completely agree with your post.

I too felt very uncomfortable with visitors and random people appearing on the ward whilst I was dealing with the aftermath of birth - bleeding all over the bed and having to change pants/pads etc. not knowing if yet another person was going to stick their head around the curtain. If you want your partner with you then you need a private room or take yourself off home.