To think the WEP should not be campaigning for men to be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards?

[CallaLilli]

I was just having a look at some of the objectives for the WEP and noticed they have a Stand Up for Dads campaign. Now whilst I agree with a lot of what they say on that page, one of the things they say is:

“hospitals don’t seem to take dads seriously. Many treat new fathers and new co-parents as visitors who have to stick to visiting hours or at best sleep in a chair. All new mums should be allowed a partner with them 24-7 if they choose.”

Countless women on MN have spoken of their experiences on postnatal wards and the majority of them have said that they would not want men staying on the ward 24/7, at a time when they feel at their most vulnerable. Am I BU to think that a party set up for women should be more considerate of what women want?

INickedAName but why is it up to the NHS' to sort out peoples' religious problems? If a woman had an issue with being undressed in front of males I would suggest a home birth (or avoid getting pregnant), as there is no guarantee you would have a female midwife/doctor during labour, so this in itself would be a problem, no?
If I had strict religious beliefs that I felt were not being catered to, then I would go give birth in a country where they were.. That's not me being callous, but in the real world we cannot attend to everybody's religious wants/needs without offending somebody else. If you don't like the way it is done here then leave. Simples.
If you don't want your partner with you that's fine but why should that affect women who would like their partner there? People saying if you want your partner to stay during the night you should pay for a private room, but actually, the people who don't want unknown men around them should be the ones paying for a private room, after all, they are the ones with the issue..
People saying they would discharge themselves if there were men around during the night, I'm sure the hospital would be glad of the bed back if people were not satisfied with the level of care.

YANBU

You are talking as though women have endless choices, guajir. Many women have to have hospital births for serious life-threatening medical reasons. Women can be born into cultures in this country that require modesty. Some women through abuse have few reproductive choices and / or seek privacy.

A hospital is their to provide medical care, not pander to peoples' religious beliefs. If people don't like that then they should make alternative arrangements.. If you dont like men seeing your private bits then maybe don't get pregnant.. Generally labour means being a tiny bit naked with not a great deal of modesty..

There*

IF you don't like men seeing your private bits don't get pregnant?- how ridiculous. I have no problem with medically qualified men and women seeing my body - I prefer not to display it to random men on the street. What a ridiculous non- argument you have made - the two situations are not comparable- It is like saying if you are happy for your partner to penetrate you sexually then you should be happy for any old man to do it.

A hospital is there to provide medical care -not to pander to people's religious beliefs - I agree, I think they should also not pander to people's desire to have someone constantly with them at all times to the detriment of other patients just because they feel they cannot manage alone.

Other patients on other wards manage without all day visitors. And most women manage fine without all day visitors.

Well congrats to you for coping so well after labour, others don't and if having my dp on the ward all night makes me selfish/unreasonable then so be it!

No way would I have been happy to have had the partner of the lady in the bed next to me staying overnight with only a curtain for privacy. He was a violent drug addict. My experiences in hospital for my first birth are the reason I'm planning a homebirth this time.

The solution is more staff and support, especially at night, not fobbing the work of staff onto family and partners.

Well congrats to you for coping so well after labour, others don't and if having my dp on the ward all night makes me selfish/unreasonable then so be it!

but what about the other women who won't cope because your DP is there? One in four women will be sexually assaulted over their lifetime - should they all have to suck up the fact that your DP is there, making them feel unsafe at a moment where they are incredibly vulnerable? I

The reason someone always talks about male partners being on the ward putting women in danger zoemaguire is because it's TRUE. There are threads on here where DV workers have told us about women whose escape plans have been fucked up because their male partners were allowed to stay all night. And pointing out that male partners being there during the day can also be dangerous, as though you think that's somehow a reason why the number of hours they can be a threat ought to be extended, is ridiculous in the extreme. Wards don't have as many staff on them at night, so patients are more vulnerable. And this isn't the only risk to women either. Sure, most women on postnatal wards aren't making plans to flee violent partners. But since 1 in 4 of us has been sexually assaulted, it's a pretty good bet that women feeling frightened, triggered and ashamed by strange men being there would happen every day, just as women go without proper care on postnatal wards every day. Incidentally, what do you plan to do for the women on understaffed postnatal wards who don't have anyone to stay with them? Do you not think that HCPs will sometimes, with the best will in the world, end up dealing with the woman whose DP is the most pushy rather than the one who needs help most urgently?

Also, your claim that midwives make sure one visit is alone with the woman is total bollocks. There are plenty for whom that didn't happen. It's meant to, it doesn't. The fact of the matter is that the current DV protection pathways don't protect us all and having male partners there 24/7 will make them even less effective. Those of you who think discussing this is totally sexist, tough fucking shit. Those of you who somehow think that insisting on prioritising, y'know, postpartum women's safety and dignity is missing a wonderful opportunity to engage the men and it would solve all kinds of problems if they could be more involved are living on a different planet.

Lastly, I do wish people would stop saying we can just have some partner wards and some not without telling us what they think we could do when the no-men ward is full and a woman wants to be cared for without being around strange males. None of you has yet come up with a solution for how that's going to work. I can think of a number of outcomes in that scenario, and none of them are positive.

I can understand why people may not want other people's partners staying overnight in shared wards.

However, I would have found it very useful to have had DH able to stay. I had a c section and was unable to move. Once in my hospital bed baby DD was laid on my chest and we were left alone over night. I couldn't move hardly. I had a catheter too. I couldn't really feed her easily myself due to the medication I had had. I couldn't put her back in her cot, etc. And the nurses are so over worked and numbers cut so drastically at times that they just can't respond to everyone all the time, and certainly not in a short period of time.

I felt totally, utterly alone and helpless that first night.

I was moved to a single room the next morning and DH was allowed to visit for much longer hours, though not at night/over night. At least by then the meds had worn off and I could move by myself!

I am not sure what the answer is. All single rooms is never going to be possible due to monetary reasons.

If people don't want to be separated from their partner for a few nights then give birth at home and give the rest of us a bit of peace and privacy.

Not every gets the choice to have a home birth.

So glad I had my first baby (my only hospital stay) in the 80's.
Visiting hours - 2 hours in the afternoon for partners, 2 hours in the evening for other visitors. That was it, over by 8 pm.
Rounds done in the morning, therefore in privacy, barring emergencies of course. Plus chance to shower, nap etc. before visitors.
Staff helped those patients who needed help to look after their babies (which isn't everyone).
Worked very well, I don't know why it had to be changed.

My dh spent 5 nights with me in hospital after ds2 was born. He was on 3 hourly feeds that consisted of 30-45 min bf , 20 min expressing on each breast followed by cup feeding formula. All equipment then needed washing and sterilising before next feeding session. This usually took about 3 hours. If dh had not been there to cup feed, wash and sterilise and generally look after ds I'm not sure how I would have coped as the midwives although very supportive were rushed off their feet.
We were lucky that we were given a private room and dh had a bed made up for him. I think in some situations both parents are needed and people should have the option.

But partners are there 9-9(in the hospital I was in) anyway, so I feel to see how then staying longer would make a woman feel more vulnerable... If a woman is unhappy with the way a hospital runs things (and I am applying this to both sides- myself included) then she should pay for a private room. That way you can do what you like and have who you like in your room.
I wanted my partner to stay because I felt worse than I have ever felt in my life. He wasn't allowed to stay and I hated it. But those were the rules and if I felt like I absolutely couldn't accept that then I would have had to pay for a private room if one was available.
Women who feel vulnerable with partners in the room also need to accept that other women would like their partner with them.
It works both ways and you are never going to be able to please everybody.

You can pay extra to go into a separate room in many NHS hospitals.

I would start from the premise we are out of funds in the UK so anything that causes more cost like letting men stay when there aren't the beds should not go ahead.

The solution is bloody obvious.

No partners or visitors outside of visiting hours, and much better post natal care.

Everyone here who is saying "oh but I needed my DH there because X" is saying they needed their partner because the care being provided was sub standard.

Post natal wards are for women to recover from child birth. That's it. They aren't there as some sort of fucking "parental bonding" club.

The discussion should be on how to campaign for much better post natal care for women - that's an issue of staffing, resources and training. It has literally sod all to do with patient's random family members hanging about!

But partners are there 9-9(in the hospital I was in) anyway, so I feel to see how then staying longer would make a woman feel more vulnerable...

Seriously, guajira. I am very surprised you don't get this, but I'll spell out the reasons:

1. There are fewer staff on at night, so less chance of any misbehaviour being prevented.

1. People sleep at night even occasionally in postnatal wards so they're more vulnerable.

1. Having partners there 24/7 means they're there twice as long as they are when it's 9-9. That's twice as much for a woman who feels threatened to put up with, and twice as long for any partner who has violent intentions to execute them.

Goodnessgracious has it absolutely right, not that I think it's going to happen. There's clearly the will there to bring partners in to paper over the cracks in postnatal care so alas that it what we're likely to be stuck with, but it bloody shouldn't be. I sympathise with posters like hulababy, I wasn't good for much myself after my section and certainly not fit to look after a baby, but it sounds like that particular problem didn't require DH per se, but just help. You can solve the problem of women not getting proper care by having more staff and no partners overnight. You can't solve the problems associated with partners staying over in any way other than them not being there, since we don't appear to be building more single room hospitals.

Guajira was meant to be bolded rather than italicised above, font fail.

People spouting about how female visitors should be allowed to stay overnight on prostate wards then are completely missing the point that a woman who has just given birth can't just lie in bed and recover - she has a baby to look after too, which often requires help.

I'm amazed this needs to be pointed out.

i do have to lol at this pay for a private room idea.
not every one can afford this, children and babies cost enough already. expecting families to do this, just so some men can stay over is weird.
perhaps do it the other way round. and unless there is a medical need, if you want your man there.....you pay

YANBU.

I think our hospital had it right when I had DS - visiting for family was 2-3.30pm and 5.30 - 7pm, but partners were allowed to visit from 9am - 9pm. We were on a ward of 6 beds, all occupied. If you wanted your partner to stay, you had to pay for your own room.

Would I have liked DP to stay? Of course I would. But I imagine being a new mum without a partner on a 6 bed ward with 5 strange men in the room, and I wouldn't feel comfortable or safe.

If we needed anything in the night the midwives were there. Women who have just given birth have a right to privacy and to feel comfortable. I wouldn't feel so comfortable sleeping in a room full of men when I had just given birth.

When I had DD I was moved to the ward just as partner visiting hours came to an end. I was tied to the bed by a catheter and feeling the after effects of a spinal and lots of stitches. He had to leave pretty much immediately. My ward was horrendously understaffed and the midwife and neonatal nurse were working 2 wards, just the 2 of them. At around 2am DD started vomitting blood and there was talk of airlifting us to another hospital etc, throughout all of this I was told to not call DH as he wouldn't be allowed in or to come with us if he decided to come and see us. Luckily all was ok. The next evening as visiting time was coming to an end I was so anxious I ended up vomitting with worry of having another scary night so got moved to a side room where DH could stay and assist.

I honestly believe if the ward is severely understaffed and the mother has had any intervention that limits her movement (csection, Epidural etc) then her partner should be allowed to stay to assist as its not physically possible to parent alone with no help when you can't move.

I completely understand why some people wouldn't be comfortable with other people's partners around however if I had my partner there I'd be fine with others also having their partners.

I wouldn't put it past the Tories to cut midwife services even further, if it became established that partners are allowed to stay overnight.

So much the worse for women without partners, or those who cannot stay.

I was pregnant the last time a thread like this one came up, and it worried me so much that it would be the case post-birth for me. As I said at the time, the thought of being surrounded by strange men/partners when I was likely to be at my most vunerable (first baby, learning to breastfeed, bleeding, possibly in pain) was a nightmare. Turns out, I got a very lucky break - I went to a MLU, had a big birthing room that had an en-suite and was discharged the same day. I can understand why some women would want a partner there post birth, but not enough to be so selfish and stay overnight. Post birth women are in hospital over night for the same reasons others need to stay in hospital. It's not a hotel, or a room for family time/reunions, it is a medical setting for people to recover. You feel you can't recover properly without the help of you (quite possible) non-medically trained partner, then paying for a side room is the only option (bar birthing at home). The NHS needs more funding in this area so this issue isn't even up for debate.