Colleague making remarks about my breasts....

[Weathergames]

Ok I know I'm not being U - more of a WWYD.

Posted about this guy last week - he's a prize prat who is very lazy, unpopular very "David Brent". I feel senior management have been trying to get rid of him for years but he never quite gives them enough rope to hang him with. A fair few of us would not be sad to see him go as he takes the piss and gives our team a bad name.

He is trying to get me to sign something to support his bid to be union rep for my Union and I have politely said no which is won't take for an answer and he actually tried to almost hoodwink me into "just signing this for me" today (luckily I had the heads up from another colleague).

He is married with children as am I - have worked together for 7 yrs so quite "familiar" I guess and I like (pity) his DW.

Couple of weeks ago (just he and I in the office) he remarks on how "huge your tits look" in that top and how he had "never realised how huge they are, how I must get a bad back and how OH is a lucky man" I was shocked and a bit mortified so quickly changed the subject without commenting (hoping it was obvious I was uncomfortable) - I am not a prude but feel uncomfortable around him for the rest of the day.

He tried to open up the conversation again but I didn't engage.

I tried to mention it to my manager but she kind of brushed it aside (her manager hates him and I know is looking for any excuse to get rid of him).

Then today he brings it up again (alone again) and mentions how huge my 16 yr old DDs "tits" also are and again says he hadn't realised how "huge mine were" until "I wore that tight top" (it wasn't tight).

My colleagues want me to take this further (and I suspect nail the final nail in his coffin) but for some reason I feel really uncomfortable about doing this as I feel I should have challenged him myself - but I just felt so bloody awkward I also don't want the hassle and horrible atmosphere of it - and do I want to be responsible for someone losing their job?

He is a manager so well aware of sexual harassment policies.

So do I wait for my next opportunity and tell him or just hang him out to dry

Oh dear! Some of you are back at that victim blaming again.

Where?

Most recently here

If you find out that he is cornering teenage girls in the office and talking like this to them, you - and they - will feel dreadful when it turns out you knew what he's like and did nothing.

and here

he's a sleeze are you really that bothered about appearing 'sly' to that calibre of person so much so that its stopping you from doing the right thing?!

That's not victim blaming.

Victim blaming would be saying its her fault for wearing the tight top or not wearing a sack.

OK, that is your opinion, but I think it is. Trying to shame a woman into doing something she is obviously reluctant to do is unpleasant, hectoring and is ignoring the fact that she herself has been a victim of sexual harrassment and is probably scared.

Why would you not include that in any definition of victim blaming? A victim is being blamed for not taking steps to stop future offences. Which is ridiculous as she is not the offender and cannot control his actions. She is not responsible. Yet there it is, women telling her that she MUST do something or she will feel and be seen as being responsible.

What else would you call it?

Possibly victim shaming?..ie trying to encourage the victim to report the incident by guilt transference because the perpetrator would continue to have access to others and the ability to victimise them because they were not reported by OP....not sure if shaming is the right word either

Gross. I bet there are other women he's victimised this way. Ask around. All get together and formally complain. That gets rid of the "he said she said" nonsense. I hope your managers see sense and get rid of the creepy scumbag.

Lots of posters saying "I don't know why you haven't reported it yet" when OP first posted late last night and hasn't posted again since the start of the working day.

We all know that many workplaces are resistant to reports of sexual harassment, it's fair enough for OP to give it some thought. I hope she's already reported but she needs to manage the situation she's in.

Well you could argue that good and bad behaviour alike is managed collectively by all of us policing ourselves and each other, and trying to do the right thing. Anyone witnessing bad behaviour has some responsibility on that occasion to try a bit of policing. Doing what we can is the deal we sign up to if we want to benefit from a well managed society.

That said, #1 - its often hard and ultimately v unfair if you have the bad luck to witness this sjit as op has, we just have to assume we'll all get a 'turn' sooner or later; and #2 it can feel harder because there are sadly a lot of passengers who benefit but don't play their part or even exploit the situation like creepy colleague here.

I am wondering if the response can be more collective ie can other colleagues get involved so it is a joint complaint? Can others initiate, saying they are worried they will be next, don't want to be alone with him, and want him investgated/retrained, something like that? Nb i know zero about hr type issues. There isn't any hr in self employment!

and do I want to be responsible for someone losing their job?

if he lost his job because of his sexually harrasment of you (and possibly others) why do you think this would be your fault? Are you saying its your fault for having breasts? No of course its not. The words come from his mouth, not yours. I think this is the key as to why you havent reported this man yet.

You can probably slap him down verbally for crude remarks to you, but remarks about your daughter?

Absolutely not. Report him, and let him take the consequences.

He probably won't lose his job IF it is an isolated incident and he hasn't had any previous warnings

He will keep treating women in such a vile manner as long as he is getting away with it.

Non-one knows what this chap is saying to the teenagers when they are alone.

And as teens, with this chap in a position of trust and power, they may well not report any sleazy comments in a similar way to the OP; they worry about this chap's job, or "getting someone into trouble" as if it's their fault. When the only one who's fault it is, is this chap.

Women are still so conditioned to "not make a fuss" which is why this chap is saying what he does.

"I feel a bit sly not pulling him up on it and then going straight to management"

I understand that you regret not challenging him at the time. But that's not easy to do. Firstly, you're in shock. You're not expecting the comment and haven't necessarily processed it yet or worked out how to respond. Secondly, you feel embarrassed and awkward. You probably want to pretend nothing happened and get out of the situation (being alone with him) as soon as possible. These things are NOT YOUR FAULT. They are HIS fault for making the inappropriate comments in the first place. However you reacted or didn't react, the fact of the matter is that HE was behaving inappropriately. That needs to reported to HR. Even if you'd had the best comeback in the world, it may not have prevented him from making more inappropriate comments to you and/or others.

Please, please, please report this to HR in writing. They will decide how best to deal with it. He may not lose his job straight away - he may get a warning and a second chance - but if he does lose his job, that will be HIS fault, not yours. He needs to learn that his behaviour is completely inappropriate and you're not the person to teach him this. HR and management are. They have the power and the responsibility to do so.

who cares if he thinks you have a friendship?

he relies on fear in his mission to harass - he thinks everyone will be so scared that he will never get caught. Please report him. If you can get him to say something in front of a witness, even better.

who else has he harassed in the office I wonder?

If you do not report it he is just going to escalate it because he now sees you as a soft touch. This is a slam dunk if I ever saw one. I am afraid you are going to have to put your big girl pants on and do the right thing.

Enough prevarication, OP. You need to report this to HR or senior management. Let them deal with it before he does something even worse.

If anything, I would say that the fact you didn't respond to him is better than if you had - there can be no confusion, no 'he said, she said', no accusations that there was any 'context' to his comments, just him saying something inappropriate and you responding appropriately by contacting HR (which I hope you are going to do to give yourself peace of mind that he has been dealt with by those in a position to do something about his behaviour).

I agree with the majority of posters, you should definitely report. There may already be other incidences lodged against him and yours will add more weight. It is absolutely unacceptable for him to speak to you like that!

Also, I'm a workplace rep for a large union and I would go to his branch secretary or another union rep and report this. Equality is at the heart of trade unionism, it's shocking that he is looking to become a rep!

By not going to HR you are saying that it is absolutely fine for him to say these things.

I cannot believe that even him saying this about your daughter hasn't prompted you to act. Talk about golden opportunity.

And now you've revealed he's in a position to be ALONE with the teens.

I'm sorry you have been a victim of this creep but you have a duty of care to those teens to report this creep!

And yes police would be interested (changes following the Ian Huntley situation). Sexual harassment is a crime PLUS he's in a position of trust and responsibility with younger likely vulnerable people.

THIS IS A SAFEGUARDING ISSUE!

Would you leave him alone with your daughter? I bloody wouldn't!

Weathergames let's go over the facts...

1. senior management have been trying to get rid of him for years

1. he remarked upon your tits, which is clearly unnaceptable

1. 2 weeks later he remarked upon your 16 yo DD's tits! What planet is he on where it's acceptable to say that?! She's your daughter FFS! And she's only 16! It's wrong on so many levels I'm gob-smacked.

1. your colleagues want you to take this further

1. He is a manager so well aware of sexual harassment policies...which makes it even worse!

Why are you even thinking about it? The comment about your daughter should have had you contacting HR instantly!

"I am not good with confrontation but I feel a bit sly not pulling him up on it and then going straight to management that's all"
Please don't think like that. OK, I'll pose this question...if he had said those things to another colleague who was a bit shy and disliked confrontation would you think she was sly to go straight to HR instead of confronting him? I know I wouldn't. Complaint systems are in place so people don't have to confront those who have behaved badly towards them. He didn't just have a funny five minutes on one particular day, he did it twice in 2 weeks. If he regretted it the first time he wouldn't have done it again would he.

I feel a bit sly not pulling him up on it and then going straight to management that's all whilst I agree with a vast number of PP who say hang the bastard, I actually feel that in any case where you feel you want / need to report someone the ethical way is to discuss with them first and tell them, disclaimer ... unless of course it is a matter of life / death or a child protection issue. so in your case op the best way is to call him out and tell him, either face to face or by letter / e mail that the incidents you have listed (list to him too) have made you uncomfortable and concerned and that if he persists you will take things further. alm and reasoned and he will see you ae serious. it is not acceptable behaviour,especially re: your daughter. also keep a log / date / times/ of his comments for future reference if when it hits the fan

Have you reported him yet OP?