To think that actually dsd should know the consequences of her decision?

[Cloudybutwarm]

Yes I'm braving aibu for a step related issue....

Dsd is 10.5.

On Saturday, as in 6 days time, we are due to be flying to Florida, her, me, Dh and our two boys, 4 and 1. This was booked and paid for months ago.

Yesterday we had a text from her mum to say that dsd has decided she doesn't want to come as she doesn't want to be away from her mum for so long. In the run up to the holiday she has said a few times she was going to really miss her mum, but she is spent far more time talking about how much she's looking forward to it. We have an ongoing thing with her not liking to be away from her mum so Dh had a few conversations with her about it before we booked and she was adamant she'd be fine.

We have taken her on holiday before, and yes she missed her mum and there was the odd tear but overall she was fine and loved the holiday.

So now with less than a week to go we are probably £1k down, have a heartbroken 4 year old who idolises his big sister and doesn't understand why she won't be coming any more and of course a completely gutted Dh.

There is obviously no point in insisting that she comes as that would probably end up making for a miserable holiday for everyone.

Her mum said to Dh please don't be angry with her, she's really upset. Dh is torn between being angry and feeling that he shouldn't be angry with her. I personally think that 10 is obviously a tricky age as she's still a child and yet not a young child.... And therefore I do think that while it's not like we need to be cross and shouty she does need to understand what she's done, that it's cost us a lot of money and that both her dad and brother are very upset. I think she is certainly old enough to be made to see there are consequences for makings decisions like this right at the last moment.

So as not to drip feed, it came to light last week that she's been experiencing some low level bullying at school which has obviously been upsetting her, I must admit that I struggle to see that she wouldn't then prefer to go to Disney for two weeks rather than be in school but there we go....

So basically aibu to think that in these circumstances actually it's ok to be a bit angry and to spell out to dsd the consequences of her actions?

OK OP maybe you have the right to be annoyed and upset.
I'm not sure that your DH does, at least not with DSD.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for him if he'd decided to book a non term time trip and discussed and agreed it with DSD's DM in advance.

It sounds like DSD may have had a last minute wobby. If DM had been on board with the holiday perhaps she may have been more helpful in her response, or perhaps not, who knows. But I'm guessing DSD had a last minute wobbly and DM fuelled her fire and told her all the negatives and how much she'd miss her hence the decision.

I agree your DSD is 10. She's 10. Not 16 or 18 but 10. She doesn't have adult emotions at this point and even if she did it sounds like she has the stark choice of making her DM or her DF sad. No win situation for her, can't blame her for going for making the one she lives with the most happy.

Maybe you could tell her (pref without her dm) that you have arranged to get whatever you can refunded, eg taxes back on flights, resell tickets etc. And ask her if she is absolutely sure she doesn't want to go. And if she still says no, pref without her DM input, then just cut your losses and move on. Emotionally rather than financially

Ah ok OP re uni. Having said that I stand by I said about uni, most 10 years would be far pushed to understand the concept of uni what it entails etc and what her other options are, after all she's only now doing SATS.....

Of course you're allowed to be annoyed OP but then you've stated here and others have said to you that you're allowed to be annoyed.

In your DSD's eyes I wonder how she sees you etc? Understanding and kind or not?

I've had experience of a stepmum who was kind, asked me on holiday, to live with her, basically the same as my own mum.

And then my mum has had experience of a stepmum who's been nasty, tried to throw a sofa over the bannisters of the apartment where they lived onto her and eventually they had a nice relationship but as a result my mum went to live with her mum at 13.

I'm not saying you're either of those step mums but you really do come across as cold OP. A bit of kindness goes a long way. I already suggested you meeting up with her before the holiday yet you've not replied to those posts.

And I say again, you're the adult and she's the child. I'm flogging a dead horse here though re this literally.

I really do think that if as you say she's talked for months on end about this holiday then why the heck aren't you speaking to her now as something or another may be wrong. I've seen she lives a drive away but you could easily arrange with her dad a trip, meet her half way... Discuss things. Who knows you could have a happy child which she is (a child) who agrees to come with you.

I do apologise for calling you a bitch and evil, that was OOO.

super there is no way of meeting up with her beforehand. She lives 4 hours away. She's at school. I have 2 young children. Her mum will not do any driving - so meeting half way isn't an option. It's an 8 hour round trip or nothing. In any event Dh is now away for work until Thursday evening. I don't know why this would be up to me anyway.

Plus as I have ready said, we're not trying to persuade her to change her mind. It's done. Even if she did say shed changed her mind dh would say no I'm case she changed it back while we were away. So that's it, she's not coming.

I'm sure I do sound cold. That's because I'm annoyed and upset. For the record our general relationship is fine. I'm sure I won't be winning any awards for worlds best step mum but if you need me to justify what things are normally like:
She's clrver and funny and sweet, dotes on my boys and is brilliant at playing with my eldest despite the age gap.
She facetimes me to talk to me even when dh isn't there
I spend time and money buying a ton of disney related clothes for her in addition to the days shopping we already did of my own volition
I save episodes of don't tell the bride for us to watch when she's here because she likes it and her mum doesn't watch.
I look after her when dh is at work, we do baking and day trips and I find recipes I think she might like and send them to her when she's not here
I send her photos of the boys while she's not here
I sort out presents for her to give to her dad.

No I'm not the worlds most amazing step mum, I'd say I'm a pretty bog standard one, but I care for her and do my best for her. I have certainly never attempted to throw a sofa at her

I'm not a step mum who professes to love my step child like I love my own children if that's what you mean. I don't. But she's generally pretty great as step children go.

Perhaps a part of my problem is I don't know any other 10 year olds. Mine and my friends children are all younger. So she does see very grown up to me. Although as someone said upthread 10 is te age of criminal responsibility so the law certainly thinks it's an age at which you can be held accountable for yor actions.

And as I've also clarified, it's not about going in all guns blazing but about not having to say that's ok, it's no problem, don't worry about it.

cloudybutwarm you sound lovely and I am sorry that her not coming is now a done deal because I do think if there was time and your DH was around then this could be sorted and she could go.

I completely take your point about talking her into it only to get there and find she is a royal PITA the whole time and that this then spoils it for you and your children.

however, this not going has now set a massive precedent. future holidays wont take her into account will they? I am not suggesting you and dh wont see her but that you will be super wary about organising any sort of longer trip.

I also think it has reinforced to her that "mother knows best" that her mum was right, she shouldn't go away for long holidays and that this will follow through as she gets older into not going to uni.

I also still think that this has the potential to blow back into her mums face big time. when she is 14/15 and starts rebelling as she almost certainly will, she will be furious with her mum for having talked her in to not going on this fantastic holiday and for lessening the relationship with you, dh and your children.

We had all of this with my sister and her son. it soured their relationship and over time nibbled away at it to the point where now they barely speak. we all saw it coming. these crunch points become divisive and they dictate relationships.

what needs to happen is that when you return from your holiday the adults all sit down and talk through why this happened and how to stop it happening again. its a short step from not going for 2 weeks to not going for a short break to not meeting up at the weekend as planned to losing the close contact your dh has. you have to stomp on this with her mum asap or it really is storing up trouble for the future.

As many others have said, I feel bad for this young girl.

A scenario that hasn't been mentioned yet (at least I don't think it has) is that she will inevitably have mentioned the upcoming trip to the friends that she does have. I imagine that they will surely find out she isn't going/didn't go and that she will then have to face the brunt of their opinions too.

Speaking from my own experience, I'd be simply about any member of my social circle at that age saying that she didn't want to go to the most awesome place ever because she'd miss her mum. It would have struck 10yo-me as a weird response, frankly. She might lose even more status as a result, because she had the option to go on a trip that others that age would admire and then turned it down for a seemingly babyish reason.

I imagine she will regret cancelling for that reason, if no other.....

mummy definitely if this had happened a month ago we would obviously be working on trying to encourage her to come, but it's just too close and too risky and I don't care if it sounds selfish but we don't want to risk having the entire holiday spoilt for everyone now.

I did say to Dh I think he needs to have a proper chat to his ex about this but unfortunately I don't think he agrees and obviously it's not my place! I have already predicted that she will ask to come to us less off the back of this as it reinforces her needing to be with her mum all the time. After the debacle at Christmas she spent the next few visits feeling ill (psychosomatic I think) and then announced that she only wanted to come once a month, although nothing came of that and I think similar will happen again.

If the decision has been made, you need to switch off to this and get on with it.
Don't write her off from future holidays, but I do think she is now at an age where she is capable of understanding that if she says she would like to go and you book it, she has made a commitment. You need to agree this with her mum as well. If your DSD were going on a school trip or the same trip with friends, I am certain nobody would be saying that it was OK not to go after she said she would and the money has been paid.
I don't have any SDC, but I also wonder if letting the her decide the frequency of visits is sensible. Like any child, she needs to be listened to - but that does not mean all her decisions are correct.

why do you live so far apart?

For the same reasons as most people winter, for work, for our families.... We have no connection to where dsd lives other than her. Dh and his ex had a long distance relationship then he moved there for a while when she was pregnant and for a time afterwards but it was never his home and we have always lived away from there.

What's his relationship with her like? You've talked a lot about what you have done for her, all the shopping, recording tv programmes, baking and your relationship with her. I just wondered if she'd like her Dad to make a bit more effort and that her relationship with him is at the root of this, rather than what she is saying it's about?

I'd imagine it would be very hard for her to say anything, given her age, but also given that neither you nor her mum were able to get him to change his mind about the holiday he does sound a little bull headed. And the comment about him trying to compete with mum by going on Disney holidays rang a bit of an alarm bell - if he thinks throwing money at her will ensure they have a good relationship he needs to rethink that!

Personally, reading between the lines, I'd say her Mum (not the OP) is the problem. At worst this Mum is emotionally manipulating her dd and wants her to 'choose' Mummy over Daddy, guilt tripping her when she goes away (I miss you soooo much. I wish you were home with me, blah blah blah). At best, she is not encouraging her Dd to go away and be with her Dad, and have a great relationship with him. As others have said, if I were the Mum I'd have made her go.

louisa bull headed is most definitely a word to describe Dh! And I do think their relationship could be better. He loves all his children very much but he openly admits he's not a natural father and finds a lot of things hard.

I don't think that was my comment about using a holiday to try and compete with mum. We go to Disney because we love Disney Dh knows he can't compete! (And I don't mean he sees it as a competition, it's just the nature of the situation)

I really feel for you, OP. You predicted (correctly) what would happen. Your dh will need to soften his "my way or the highway" attitude if he wants a continued relationship with dsd. That sort of parenting can sometimes work within a really close relationship and a present father. As you say, he has never lived with her, his bond with her is much weaker than her mum's and dsd is likely to pick the highway in the future.

If she lived with him, there would have been weeks of daily chances to plan and discuss, as it is, she was shown a huge carrot and told the conditions, her mum was presented with an already excited dd and slowly, the insurmountable (for her) conditions fully sank in.

I think I feel that if that were the case, that mum would have said no to the trip and there would have been an issue on other holidays. Cloudy does say that she doesn't think mum has been actively encouraging her not to go. Something is clearly upsetting her about this to the point where the dsd has mooted not going on any further holidays with them. It just doesn't make sense to me to automatically point the finger at mum. I'm left wondernig if there's more going on that is apparent.

I think one of the hardest elements for him is the fact that even 2 weeks in Disney with daddy is still not preferable to two weeks at home with mum.

It's this that I was referring to, your post yesterday.

My own DD is very like this with her dad and his family. She is also 10 but gets very anxious away from me. This is NOT something that I have encouraged and is definitely NOT something I feel about my own mother... but divorce is hard for children and I think that in a way it is especially hard for young girls who have to spend time away from their mothers. No disrespect to fathers but my DD has found this very hard and ex-H takes the 'tough love' approach. As a result, she gets VERY anxious all year about holidays with ExH where she will be away from me for a week at a time. She won't talk to him because he will be 'angry'. And I'm afraid he will: that's why he's my ex-H.

louisa I didn't mean that he sees it as a competition, just that he knows that ultimately she would always choose her mum and would always prefer to be at home rather than with him. He's not trying to compete with her mum and accepts it's inevitable that she feels like this but as a parent who loves your child it's hard to be always second best if that makes sense.

I am really sorry this has happened and I think DSD will regret it. Sorry not rtft so sorry if this has been said but can you get the mum onside more and work on her together as a group of loving well meaning adults? Get the mum and the DSD on Skype at the same time and tell her - gently - what her decision means, for all of you, including her:

• disappointed little siblings
• a lot of money lost
• DSD will feel regretful when she sees the photos. she may never have this chance again
• talk up how much fun you will all have, you will miss her of course, but it's going to be amazing....
• she can talk to her mum every night

I think if DSD can decide to go and deal with missing her mum a bit it will be really good for her. She will have to learn sometime about not going back on her word when outlay is involved and with something that is actually a lot of fun, this is a good place to start. She will also have to learn to ride moments of emotional discomfort to get to the good stuff. This is best done willingly, not being forced. this is a great opportunity to do this. As a group of adults you should all coach her to do this, this time.

I get the feeling that the mum might not be automatically in tune with this, can you call her and just ask her to help out with this?

FWIW I wouldn't have wanted to spend 2 weeks away with my step mum when I was 10. Even if it was disneyland.

Lockthetaskbar the OP has said that taking her is not now an option so no need really to speak to the child about it any further as she isn't going.

My concern is the long term effect this will have on the relationship. it is bound to. however hard headed the DH is, he needs to realise that this is one of those pivotal moments in a relationship and he needs to make the effort to sort things with the mum.

this girl is going to be really miserable once you have gone. she will have to tell all her friends that she isn't going and they will put pressure on her. she will have to deal with you all when you return with photos and gifts and details of all the fun that you had knowing it could have been her. everytime one of her friends mentions Disney it will all come back.

please show your DH some of the comments in this thread and make him realise how important sorting this out is for the long term health of his relationship with his daughter.

It does sound a bit typical of NRPs - they're not around for the small stuff but think they can suddenly whisk the kid off for 2 weeks in Disneyland and it'll all be magical and amazing. It doesn't work like that

All NRPs? Or only one(s) that you know?. No-one is suggesting everything will be all "magical and amazing" but NRPs are still parents - and want to take their children on holiday just as much as RPs. I can just imagine some peoples reaction if OP had started a thread saying they were all going to Disneyland and he hadnt invited her step- daughter to come!!!

Some NRPs very much want to do more of the care/parenting (rather than 'Disney' stuff) but aren't allowed/have obstacles thrown in their way by the RP. There are two sides to every story.

This may have been said already, but if she lives in England presumably she would be missing two weeks off school, in the run-up to Christmas?

She hasn't spent a great deal of her life living with both parents, so she probably doesn't want to spend two weeks with her father away from her mother.

Parenting means being there when your child wants you, not wasting spending thousands of pounds on a holiday in a glorified fairground. It appeals to you, obviously not to her.

She sounds a child of great discernment.

This is a tricky situation. I remember when my eldest was a pre schooler and I met my friends kids that 10 seemed almost grown up. Now I have my own and my perspective has changed somewhat. Some 10 yr olds would be fine and thrive on this holiday and some would be nervous and worried about being away from home.

I think Minty though has very relevant point. Children are very aware that being away from school is a bad thing. There are attendance awards and class attendance awards and some schools certainly make a big deal of SATs and set extra work for the children. I wouldn't be surprised if she thought it would be OK but is now subject to pressure from lots of angles.