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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think if my 4 year old wants me to take him to his classroom that shouldnt be a problem?

624 replies

firefly78 · 18/11/2015 09:06

he's 4 for goodness sake. he loves school and if he wants me to take him to his classroom door rather than go all the way in on his own i dont see why that's an issue. Teacher shouted over to him today saying "come on ds otherwise mummy will have to leave you at the gate". Its irrationally upset me. silly I know but i think they are still so little. Hes coped brilliantly with school, loves reading etc and we have just had a great report. he has an older sibling at school who runs in happily. Oh amd im most definitely not the only parent who does this. He ran in happily before half term cos they got a sticker but dont know so he doesn't see the point! i just think they are still little and i dont know why school tries to make them grow up so fast!!!

OP posts:
witsender · 19/11/2015 19:05

If you are going down the 'anything goes' route sticker charts are frowned upon...you're teaching them that extrinsic motivation is all that is needed to play your part and help the team. Instead of teaching them to help because they want to. Tidy up to get a sticker, don't bother without. Wink

TaliZorah · 19/11/2015 19:07

budgie they were fairly flexible with rules. I did work with mainly SN children though so that may have been why.

Sirzy · 19/11/2015 19:09

For a lot of children with special needs flexible rules are the worst thing possible. They need clear rules and routines!

TaliZorah · 19/11/2015 19:10

witsender I've never personally had a problem with sticker charts Confused it's just making it into a game.

budgiegirl · 19/11/2015 19:14

budgie they were fairly flexible with rules. I did work with mainly SN children though so that may have been why

But I bet they still had them, flexible or not. School would start and finish at a set time. Certain standards of behaviour were presumably expected. Children weren't just allowed to do what they wanted, when they wanted. Parents weren't allowed to stay all day Wink

Teachers, TAs and parents can be kind, loving and caring, and still expect certain rules to be followed. However you persuade a child to do something, certain things would still need to be done. A school couldn't function any other way.

TaliZorah · 19/11/2015 19:16

Sirzy but the rules differed for each child. We had one boy with ASD who had one chair that was his, a coat peg that was his and he was allowed to leave the class at any time. Another girl with cerebral palsy was allowed to arrive after everyone else so she didn't get crushed in the pile in.

It worked

TaliZorah · 19/11/2015 19:17

budgie yes but they were often adapted if needed. Such as the girl who started later due to cerebral palsy and so on

There were rules but they were very loose, which was nice

Sirzy · 19/11/2015 19:18

That's very different from having a free for All where children can do what they want when they want though which seems to be your approach to things.

TaliZorah · 19/11/2015 19:20

Sirzy it's not a free for all as such I want, but I prefer much looser structures than rigidity. I think kids learn better in those environments

NKFell · 19/11/2015 19:54

You come out with things that sound normal but pepper it with crazy.

If you were in charge of a class of 20 I think you'd be overrun. In fact, I think you'd be exhausted just in my house!

It would be a disaster if teachers weren't stern at all for example. My son would sit talking to his friends all day if the teacher didn't ask him to be quiet, ask again, then tell him. But it seems like you don't agree and if society ran your way, it would be anarchy.

budgiegirl · 19/11/2015 20:08

I prefer much looser structures than rigidity

But even looser structures have boundaries, and the children must work within those boundaries.

And in a class of 30 with 2 teachers/adults, rules need to be much tighter, you just can't have 30 children all using different rules.

TaliZorah · 19/11/2015 20:27

budgie the issue with that is schools having too many kids in a class. Quality of education goes down in an attempt to fit more in

NK I still don't agree being stern is necessary. Make your class interesting enough so that they want to pay attention.

It's not crazy to have a bit more of an extreme view

budgiegirl · 19/11/2015 20:58

budgie the issue with that is schools having too many kids in a class. Quality of education goes down in an attempt to fit more in

I agree, but that's the way it is in the UK, unless you decide to home educate or go private.

So, given that that's the way it is, rules are needed. You seem to think that rules are a terrible thing, generally they are not, they ensure that the children can be safe, secure and be educated.

I agree that you are not crazy, but I do think you are being totally idealistic and impractical.

MissHooliesCardigan · 19/11/2015 21:08

This reminds me of a playgroup I used to go to with DS2. In the outside area, they had a ride in Police car with sirens and other side effects which all the kids loved. The group ran for two and a half hours. I got there once 15 minutes after it started. There was a little boy in the car. 20 minutes later, he was still in the car by which time a queue of children had formed who wanted a turn. I am the most unassertive person in the world but I eventually asked the boy's mum if DS2 could have a turn. She looked really put out

GloriaSmellens · 19/11/2015 21:25

I assumed Tali had another older child? Doesn't she?!!!

MissHooliesCardigan · 19/11/2015 22:11

Sorry, posted too soon. When she tried to get him out, he started crying. His mum looked at me and shrugged her shoulders with a kind of 'What can I do?' expression. He ended up staying in the car for the whole session because every time she tried to get him out, he started crying so she just let him stay in. So a whole queue of children stood there for 2 hours waiting patiently and never had a go in the car because one child's mother didn't want to see her child cry. To me, that's just lazy parenting. I have had to pull a kicking screaming DS1 out of a swing because it's not ok to let him stay in it for 2 hours while other children are standing there waiting.
Young children are totally egocentric and have no concept of sharing or taking turns. It's something they have to learn, Not teaching them to share and take turns in case they get upset is really not doing them any favours.

dementedpixie · 19/11/2015 22:17

Nope, from reading the thread Tali has 1 baby son and no other children

Keeptrudging · 19/11/2015 22:25

"Make your class interesting enough that they pay attention." Herein lies the problem. In a class of 30 children, there will be a range of what they find 'interesting'. I can prepare a fabulous lesson but all it takes is 1 or 2 who are not interested to then start carrying on/disrupting. It is necessary then to tell them to stop/be quiet. I am not a bad teacher for doing this.

I can try to motivate and enthuse pupils (and I generally do), but the bottom line is, I'm not a children's entertainer, I'm a teacher and at times yes they do have to get on with their (not always fabulously exciting) work quietly because I say so!!

mmgirish · 19/11/2015 23:48

Didn't read all the arguments but I think that children in the early years should be allowed to be accompanied to their class and into their class.

DisappointedOne · 20/11/2015 00:00

Young children are totally egocentric and have no concept of sharing or taking turns. It's something they have to learn, Not teaching them to share and take turns in case they get upset is really not doing them any favours.

Haven't read the full thread but this is bollox. Neither DD nor her 5 closest (lifelong) peers have been "taught to share". Not one is ever told they have to give something up because someone else wants it. Mentioning that another child would like a turn when they've finished is usually enough to have them give it up within 5 minutes max. They are also allowed to refuse to share their own things with the others of they want to, and understand that others may do the same. It's not once caused an issue and they have the same rules at the various schools they attend. (They're lol between 5 and 5.5).

DisappointedOne · 20/11/2015 00:00

*all, not lol.

budgiegirl · 20/11/2015 07:09

Not one is ever told they have to give something up because someone else wants it. Mentioning that another child would like a turn when they've finished is usually enough to have them give it up within 5 minutes max

But what if they don't give it up after 5 minutes? Do you really believe , in the example MissHoolie gave, that it was ok for a child to hog one toy (that's not just his) for two hours, when other children want a go? Or should he be taught to share that toy, to let other children play too.

I appreciate you may allow your children not to share their own toys (although that seems a shame) , but teaching that's it's ok not to share group toys is teaching a child that it's ok to be selfish and not to consider the needs of others

honkinghaddock · 20/11/2015 07:20

In the case of children with sn, they are reasonable adjustments not flexible rules. Allowing a parent to stay with a child without sn does not come under the category of reasonable adjustments. As I said earlier it may have a negative impact on other children and their needs matter more than what a parent wants.

futureme · 20/11/2015 07:55

I think tali is the same poster as on the "always late" thread saying she's been in trouble with work, missed appointments due to bring late, regularly late for friends and defending being hours late places.

I'm now wondering if the parenting and outcomes are linked!

DisappointedOne · 20/11/2015 08:14

But what if they don't give it up after 5 minutes? Do you really believe , in the example MissHoolie gave, that it was ok for a child to hog one toy (that's not just his) for two hours, when other children want a go? Or should he be taught to share that toy, to let other children play too.

I appreciate you may allow your children not to share their own toys (although that seems a shame) , but teaching that's it's ok not to share group toys is teaching a child that it's ok to be selfish and not to consider the needs of others

Well, nothing like that example has ever happened in our group. (I know that DD's teacher has an egg timer and so communal toys at school can be regulated should such an issue occur. That way children are taught that they get a turn rather than it being something that should be shared instantly.).

As for the toys comment, all of the children are very generous, actually, and will loan out around 95% of their toys given the chance. But there are some things that are very special to them that they don't want to share. I don't think that's unreasonable. (Eg not wanting to let others play with just opened birthday presents immediately. They all understand that others may not want to share things instantly too.). It's honestly not a problem.

As parents we all felt strongly that training children that their wants and needs are usurped by anyone else coming along and wanting the things wasn't the right thing to do.

We aren't alone.

www.janetlansbury.com/2009/11/the-s-word/

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