To think that this is out of order, and there's no shame in being cis

[JellyKnockers]

NC as potentially outing.

DD is 17 and gay. She's very active in local LGBT societies and organisations and has campaigned against homophobic bullying in her school. Today she received this email from one of the organisations she's involved with, publicising an event for trans writers.

What's wrong with being cis ffs?! DD has herself been on the receiving end of abuse in the past for being 'transphobic', simply because she's challenged the anti cis opinion which she encounters regularly. This despite the fact that she campaigns for equality and has done since she came out aged 14. She's seriously considering giving up the work she does with various groups because of this attitude, which is all too common. She's even received death threats on Twitter because she's 'evil' enough to think that equality should be just that, and everyone should simply respect everyone else.

I'm livid, she's livid, are we BU?

Surely it is just intended to be a relatable joke considering the audience?

Giving the benefit of the doubt, I think it is meant as a harmless joke. But imagine the reverse, imagine if it said 'Be there or be trans'

I am just thinking about the new film out, Tangerine, where a woman is beaten up by a transwoman and it's supposedly OK and funny because she's white and cis.

Given this new context it is very much not ok and also are they saying this is an event for only trans people? Either way, equating cis with square is ridiculous and actually rather trivialises the whole gender identity issue since it suggests transitioning is something you do to avoid being square

I'm pretty sure most people know what 'tea' means without having to give it a ridiculous label.

I quite like the non-decaffeinated coffee analogy upthread.

It seems a bit daft for a LBGT group to criticise 'cis' people because surely most of their members will actually be 'cis'. I'm assuming there are lots of gay/lesbian/bisexuals who are quite happy being gay/lesbian/bisexual and don't want to change sex. Certainly all the ones I know are.

Exactly, Egosumquisum, and I don't think such heated debates would be going on if people, particularly women, didn't feel so strongly about it and didn't think it was small potatoes accepts that the colour grass could attract such heated debate on the internet, but still

Ah, apologies, just seen it is an event only for trans people. That part is fair enough. Using cis as equivalent to square obviously not.

????

Actually, with tea, the green tea is normal tea and black tea is processed differently ... however, both are made from the tea plant. Which means, both are essentially, in the truest sense of the word, tea.

It is not like that with transwomen.

Anyway. I am not cis. I am not happy to be assigned feminine gender by all people around me just because I happen to have been born female.

Therefore, I am not cis.

It is very insulting to just assume a woman wants to be treated as second-class citizen. Which the "cis" label does.

there is a word for a woman who is not trans, and that's woman

Only if you believe that trans women are not women.

Only if you believe that trans women are not women.

Yes, but that's basic biology.

They are transwomen.

Why's that not ok?

There is no need for non trans women to have the label cis foisted on them and therefore I do not accept that it is useful or helpful.

And I'm astonished that anyone could claim to be a regular user of Mumsnet and not have seen that word come up again and again and again and again and again and again.

Some posters really never stray outside of Aibu I guess.

However, I am now officially pleading with HQ for a trans topic, so that I can hide the whole repetitive heap of it.

Well I seriously object to bring called cis. Who are these people to come up with a term to apply to me with their interpretation of my relationship to gender roles?

They can cock off with that, for starters.

Send them all out to volunteer in Croatia or Kos or Hungary; there's stuff going on in the world which needs attention.

I don't understand the anxiety surrounding the term cis. Such a large part of gender is cultural surely it's common sense to realise that much of what governs men and women's clothing, behaviour and bearing is an automatic consequence of whether or not they have a Y chromosome.

*If I mention "tea", you probably think of English Breakfast or PG Tips or similar.

But if I also start talking about "green tea", then what? You then need a way to refer to the brown tea that you drink with milk*

'Tea' would about meet the case, I think.

there is a word for a woman who is not trans, and that's woman

Only if you believe that trans women are not women.

Transwomen are transwomen. They are not the same as women.

Yes 'tea' for me is regular black tea that you drink with milk.

Any other kind of tea gets a prefix.

Only if you believe that trans women are not women.

Which is my POV. They are trans women, not women. I have no problem with people dressing as they wish, living as they wish, hope no harm or discrimination ever becomes a trans person for how they look or live or love. But I am a woman, that is my sex. I am not a gender, because I reject that, therefore I reject cis. Therefore I am a woman.

"I'd like a cup of tea please." "Certainly, what kind?" "Tea!" ".. Errr" "just TEA!!! It doesn't need a label!"

I have never asked someone whether they would like a cup of tea and they haven't known what I meant.

There is no need to invent a new term for women. I absolutely do not want to be redefined because trans women exist.

I don't think it's offensive.

Maybe they mean that if you're cis, you don't need to attend as you're not affected by being trans? So 'be trans or be cis'.