To think that this is out of order, and there's no shame in being cis

[JellyKnockers]

NC as potentially outing.

DD is 17 and gay. She's very active in local LGBT societies and organisations and has campaigned against homophobic bullying in her school. Today she received this email from one of the organisations she's involved with, publicising an event for trans writers.

What's wrong with being cis ffs?! DD has herself been on the receiving end of abuse in the past for being 'transphobic', simply because she's challenged the anti cis opinion which she encounters regularly. This despite the fact that she campaigns for equality and has done since she came out aged 14. She's seriously considering giving up the work she does with various groups because of this attitude, which is all too common. She's even received death threats on Twitter because she's 'evil' enough to think that equality should be just that, and everyone should simply respect everyone else.

I'm livid, she's livid, are we BU?

What's a terf?

Chemistry is also a mystery to me But I've sen it explained well on here and other sites and now am completely critical of the term

Cis my arse. I refuse to recognise this term - like a poster upthread - so I can't be offended at it but I can be annoyed at the utter pretentiousness of it. And I am.

Bonkers! Cis woman is just a woman in the same way as non decaffeinated coffee is just coffee!

Terf = trans exclusionary radical feminist. If you are gender critical you get labelled as such and receive death/rape threats and that's fine, apparently

I hate "cis" and the implication that we, as women, should be apologetic and have to tiptoe around the simple fact of being born female. Like born women are offensive to transwomen because we have it so easy

Wow yeah that's a bit crap.

Sounds like it's been written by someone who does not understand what the words means, since a large number of people who identify as LGB (not so much T of course) will be cis and know that they are.

Thanks, Chief.

So it's basically yet another term to insult and belittle women.

I think it's pretty funny and don't feel threatened or insulted by it in the slightest. Seems like pretty small potatoes when you think of the abuse suffered by trans men and women.

Life is too short for this kind of identity politics rubbish.

^This

Which now creates the opportunity for people to find new things to be outraged about.

Waltermitty's question was 'what's a terf?'

Cif is a cleaning product. Sorry op sounds like your dd is amazing strong woman. Yanbu re this.

No problem, Walter

And yes, yes it is. It's a way reinforce gender concepts and not something I can ever be in board with. If a person identifies as cis, I will continue to disagree with their POV but respect that that is how they view themselves. But if you reject the term, the abuse that gets rained down is astonishing

It's not small potatoes when the culture of its acceptance leads to a man with a penis being allowed in to women's prisons and changing rooms

Ah sorry, got myself confused there! Both terf and cis are used as insults, yes. I was talking about cis in my previous post. Am pretty much considering myself terf at this point, but not cis

It's not belittling at all.

It's a useful term, when used in a useful manner (rather than this childish manner that is actually rude to many of the target audience of the organisation)

Think of it like this:

If I mention "tea", you probably think of English Breakfast or PG Tips or similar.

But if I also start talking about "green tea", then what? You then need a way to refer to the brown tea that you drink with milk.

To call it "normal tea" is to suggest that green tea is not normal. There's nothing abnormal about it, it's just a different kind of tea.

So we have the phrase "black tea". To refer to, er, black tea.

"Cis women" (or cis men) is just a way of specifying "women who are not trans", while acknowledging that women who are trans still fall into the category of "women".

We just love a label don't we. It seems every preference, quirk, trait whatever needs a special name these days, it has to be defined, it has to be validated.

Life is too short for this kind of identity politics rubbish.

I disagree. This is an important issue.

Women are being forced to change our very biological identity.

Why do trans' wants trump women's?

I'm not ok with being called a cis woman. I shouldn't be abused because of it.

But Trills, there is a word for a woman who is not trans, and that's woman*

I utterly reject being labelled a cis woman. Should that term be forced upon me against my will?

Well I find it belittling, so are transwomen just women then, and the rest of us are now ciswomen?

Bollocks to that! I'm a woman, I object strongly to a precursor to my womanhood.

It's not specifically used by people "against" women.

You don't spend much time on the internet, do you?

@Jelly: Your daughter sounds like an awesome young woman. Maybe suggest that she work together with radfems in the future; that will not stop the death threats, but at least she will have people who are on her side.
Sooner or later, she's likely be branded a "terf" anyway, whether she considers herself a radfem or not.

Oh, and give those to your daughter.

Why can't it be women and transwomen?