To think that this is out of order, and there's no shame in being cis

[JellyKnockers]

NC as potentially outing.

DD is 17 and gay. She's very active in local LGBT societies and organisations and has campaigned against homophobic bullying in her school. Today she received this email from one of the organisations she's involved with, publicising an event for trans writers.

What's wrong with being cis ffs?! DD has herself been on the receiving end of abuse in the past for being 'transphobic', simply because she's challenged the anti cis opinion which she encounters regularly. This despite the fact that she campaigns for equality and has done since she came out aged 14. She's seriously considering giving up the work she does with various groups because of this attitude, which is all too common. She's even received death threats on Twitter because she's 'evil' enough to think that equality should be just that, and everyone should simply respect everyone else.

I'm livid, she's livid, are we BU?

What I'm trying, badly I think, to say is I accept that the concept of gender exists in our society, but that I reject that as I see it as harmful.

A woman can love pink/glitter/heels/dresses or boots/short hair/blue/trousers and either can enjoy sex with men, women or both and both are still valid women and not trans. A man can love pink/glitter/heels/dresses or boots/short hair/blue/trousers and either can enjoy sex with men, women or both, and both are still valid men.

happy with your gender assigned at birth

Er, gender isn't assigned at birth, it is biological sex which is assigned at birth. Gender is an ideological system into which we are socialised, and through which biological females, because of their reproductive potential, are oppressed.

I'm happy to be called a cis-woman. I'm not happy about the rampant transphobia on MN.

Ah chiefclerk, well I agree with you in rejecting the idea that gender should be rigidly enforced. But I think that there isn't anyone in our society who isn't touched by gender in some way.

Oops, last bit should be valid men and not trans

Where is this rampant trans phobia?
I havnt seen it

And JellyKnockers three cheers for your DD! Send her my way when she wants to go to university - she sounds fab.

And the TERF/cis stuff your DD is subjected to is bollocks and appalling that your DD was bullied like that.

Where is this rampant trans phobia?

I'd like to know this too. I haven't seen it either.

I must live on a completely different planet! Terf, CIS and whatever other bloody trendy/insulting labels that are about have just passed me by.

I have no issue if some one is a man, a man who has realised they are actually a woman or a woman or a woman who feels male or someone who is gay or bisexual. But for Godness sake, just get on living your life without the need to use insulting or rude labels.

All smacks of a bit of attention seeking to be fair. My Grandad would have called them Drama Queens back in the day, but I suppose that is not an acceptable term to use - a bit like calling someone a terf or CIS.

You don't get people's understanding or empathy by using insulting labels or is that just acceptable for minority groups?

Ah chiefclerk, well I agree with you in rejecting the idea that gender should be rigidly enforced. But I think that there isn't anyone in our society who isn't touched by gender in some way.

I agree, we are touched by gender but that doesn't mean we accept it. My mam to this day will buy a pint and ask for a half pint glass to drink out of, because she was brought up to believe that ladies do not drink pints. I have no such qualms and will happily chuck back a pint or 4

Any school worth its salt is onto this. Jamie at gender intelligence ( google it) plus stonewall should be part of school life. As a parent these guys also run amazing sites . Just because you don't have involvement doesn't mean you shouldn't be interested. I'm sure I will be told to go away by the regulars.

I guess the problem is that the term "man" for example typically refers to someone of both male sex and male gender (because for most men these coincide). But the question is, is the definition of "man" (a) "someone of male gender" or (b) "someone of male sex". Personally, I feel that the social importance of gender is so important to our society and our social identities that the answer has to be (a). It follows from that view that I'd consider it irrelevant what biological sex a man has. I guess for someone who thinks the answer is (b), it is irrelevant what social gender a man has. Leaving aside the fact that personally I think that answer (b) doesn't reflect the reality of our society, it seems harsh people be forced to accept identities that they don't want but just got at birth.

There is no rampant trans phobia on MN. Ffs.

What there is, to MN' s credit, is space to discuss trans activism and its effects on women. I knew next to nothing about these issues before MN.

How strange
The op vanishes and no one can back the random phobia claims

Right your mam doesn't have to accept any particular gender norm. Gender norms change over time. But the fact that she considers herself a mam and presumably prefers the pronoun she suggest she identifies as a woman.

MultishirkingAgain

Er, gender isn't assigned at birth, it is biological sex which is assigned at birth. Gender is an ideological system into which we are socialised, and through which biological females, because of their reproductive potential, are oppressed.

Perfectly put! How sad that such simple, irrefutable facts can now be classed as hate speech

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I've missed the point, but I can't see anything wrong with an event for trans writers. Or an event for lesbian writers, or black writers, or women writers... Some groups are under-represented and one way to get over that is to create a safe space for just that group. Am I missing something? I don't think it means there's anything wrong with being cis, it's just a space for discussing gender identity issues rather than sexual orientation.

I am not cis woman I am simply a woman and female. Trans woman not simply a woman they are trans woman and male.

Is it not a play on the phrase be there or be square

Honestly couldn't muster the energy to be offended by this

Ackvavit DD works with Stonewall to combat homophobic bullying in her school. She's also hosted assemblies etc on gay and trans issues. And yet, she has been labelled transphobic because she opposes the use of 'cis' as an insult. Go figure

I am not cis. I am a woman.

YANBU, this is a really badly expressed piece of writing. I'm cis personally. I don't object to being called that. But it isn't an insult, and this is being used as an insult. It's no better than saying 'be there or be gay.'

Anyway, cis people can be allies, surely.

But I'm not cis. I'm a woman.