WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

[KKCupCakes]

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

Jack Monroe is an attention seeker.

I haven't posted on any of the trans threads. A human being with a male appendage that is fully functioning & in use - regardless of which gender the person in question identifies with - belongs in a male prison.

Can we stop fighting? We all want the same thing. A world free of gender based expectations. Yes yes Bertie!

itsmine - sorry, those comments were in relation to Jack Monroe (who hasn't done much more than write a food blog!) and also another thread where a woman said her daughter was questioning her gender identity and a poster said (IIRC) that there's a trend for trans to be "fashionable" and that teenagers like to see themselves as "special snowflakes". I actually didn't read the Tara one.

Cactus - not denying some trans activists are dicks but not all of us would say such stupid things! Privilege is of course nuanced and intersectional.

Why be unkind to people when it costs you nothing at all to be kind?

Yes women, be kind - that is your role.

Also, be dignified - that gives you value.

Whatever you do, don't be stroppy, don't complain, don't imagine that you are important enough to have an opinion on how you are defined.

maxxy I agree, Jack Monroe is a butch lesbian; a tomboy - not all of a sudden a TGFtM. She has gone down in my estimation, not because she's come out, but because she's an attention seeker. To begin with I thought she was humble.

So tired of being called a bigot for stating facts. its a collective madness.

Privilege is just what the self- appointed guardians of our morals say it is on that particular day.

Guys, you know that women can sexually assault other women, right? I mean, that is not even uncommon, I've been sexually assaulted and harassed by women. So this "people with penises could sexually assault women in female spaces" line is also kind of bullshit? And is saying some pretty weird stuff about how you see biological sex and gender roles, too.

Most of us here started as trans-accepting liberal feminists (not all). If you did, what was the point when you said "enough is enough"? otherwise known as peak trans apparently.

I have had my peak trans moment.

I was called a fucking arse and a bigoted twat recently for commenting that 'we're all people, people' is trite and meaningless when it comes to women discussing concerns around trans issues.

The speed with which those types of insults are reached for is notable. It's attempted silencing, pure and simple.

siani are you saying that women commit sexual offences at the same rate as men?

Guys, you know that women can sexually assault other women, right?

So in the name of being "kind" we have to pretend that men pose no more risk to women than other women do?

Fucking seriously?

Male violence against women is no longer a societal problem. We can just ignore it because you once got felt up by a woman.

People can post any threads they like. However we are all entitled to reply in any terms we like.
Some men do seek to silence women, stifle debate and stop us talking. In Saudi there is a scheme to ensure women are wiped out of public life and not even spoken of even if an achievement is female. Many of us women have been in situations where men have tried to stop us talking. I am not syaing transwomen are men who similarly seek to silence women, cause unnecessary debate and forcefully intrude in female only spaces but we need to guard against that happening.

I deplore all discrimination against people of all kinds including against men and against transwomen and most people on mumsnet will share that view.

And as far as cis privilege goes, I don't think people understand either intersectionality or privilege. Just because someone has one type of privilege does not mean that they are better off overall than someone without that type of privilege. For someone born a girl in Nigeria, cis privilege certainly offers less actual benefit than Western privilege offers a white trans woman in America. White privilege doesn't mean that white women are automatically better off than black men, but it's one thing they have going for them. I'm quite glad of my cis privilege, I've never had to worry that if someone I date finds out about my childhood I will be beaten or killed. But it doesn't mean I don't suffer gender discrimination at work.

I really find the term CIS offensive. I am a woman and I am not adding any sodding pre fix.

Maude are you saying that trans women commit sexual assault at the same rate as men?
And actually, it's quite difficult to look into this anyway, because rates of reporting and prosecution are very variable.

sian I don't think you understand intersectional feminism.

No, that wasn't my question.

My question was are you saying that women commit sexual crimes at the same rate as men?

AFAIK the principal study shows that transwomen commit crimes at the same rate as their biological sex ie men.

Guys, Cis is just useful when discussing trans issues as shorthand if you want to be clear. No one is forcing you to change what you call yourselves. But if you're specifically talking about how your current gender relates to the genitals you were born with it's a lot faster than "woman who was also born with unambiguous female genitals" same as trans woman is faster than "woman born with male genitals".