WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

[KKCupCakes]

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

siani I don't know if TW commit sexual violence at the same rate as men. What I do know is that saying anyone who feels like a woman has access to women only space is an absolute gift for predatory men.

I am getting tired of repeating these stories, but here we go again

• male bodied person in Canada given access to 2 women's shelters because they identified as a woman. Went on to sexually assault 4 women (one 15 years old)
• male bodied person who identifies as a woman in the U.S. Decided they needed to use the showers at exactly the same time each week as the girls swim team met. Girls swim team forced to cram into disabled facility to avoid him

Real cases, real women suffering.

Is this acceptable to you to preserve the orthodoxy that being a woman is nothing more than a feeling and biological reality is irrelevant?

There would be none of these prison issues if people didn't commit crimes. Most of us manage not to. No one expects prison to be a piece of cake. The worse it is the less likely people will commit crimes. How many trans prisoners do we have in the UK? Are there so very many it is worth spending precious resources on when those who dont' break the law are themselves suffering in so many ways? If the prison experience is awful then it might make people think twice before breaking the law.

"is saying some pretty weird stuff about how you see biological sex and gender roles, too."

I'm interested in the weird stuff. Can you explain?

Or you could just use 'woman' and 'transwoman'. V simple.

The two issues with cis privelige I can see are:

1. Many women strongly object to being labelled 'cis' against their wishes. It seems weirdly acceptable to foist this label on women when in all other instances the liberal-minded approach is to accept that people can choose their own labels and others should respect that. I'm not a cis woman. I'm a woman.

1. The list of 'cis privelige' posted on a trans thread recently consisted almost entirely of points that were actually male privelige. Men transition to become transwomen, encounter the misogyny that women face every day, and claim its transphobic. And somehow, it ends up being women's fault again.

I think instead of using the term Cis using the term woman works far better.

"how your current gender relates to the genitals you were born with"

My current gender? As opposed to last year's or the one I'll have next year?

Is this Newspeak?

I also don't want to be called "guy".

Ha Cote, was just about to post the "guy" thing!

And how exactly do you intend to police the rules about no penises in the changing rooms? I've known people with penises who absolutely passed as female with no question. And I know a lot of women who have been accused of being male. Are you going to demand to look at the genitals of anyone you suspect?? Or are you going to mostly just make the rule and assume that as the vast majority of people are not actually out to cause trouble, they will obey it? And if that's the case, why no just accept that people who say they are women are women?

They are not women.

God. So stupid. I can't even bring myself to take that post apart, it's like swimming through custard.

sian how old are you?

May as well just get rid of the police force, judiciary and prison service as absolutely everyone just follows the rules.

Anecdotes are not data.
"The rate of inmate-on-inmate sexual victimization [PDF] is at least 3 times higher for females (13.7%) than males (4.2%). This has been attributed to the fact that a majority of prison officials do not view female-on-female sexual assault as "true rape," making them less likely to reprimand inmates." jurist.org/dateline/2014/09/christina-piecora-female-inmates.php

"According to one source, female-perpetrated sexual abuse of inmates is a particularly large problem in juvenile detention centers, where 90% of victims of staff abuse say a female correctional officer was the perpetrator. "
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States

Women assault other women. Life would certainly be simple if they didn't, and I can see why it would be appealing to cling to the idea that they don't.

So shall just now get rid of sex segregation in prisons? Just mix the men with the women. No problem.

Siani who has claimed that female-on-female violence doesn't exist? What are you arguing against?

"why no just accept that people who say they are women are women?"

Because "says so" and "is" are two different things.

And also, the fallacy of "any old Tom with a penis who says 'I'm a woman' is a woman" makes it impossible to fight women's issues or even collect meaningful statistical data about women. You can't even say menstruation and FGM are women's issues lest you get called TERF, transphobic, and a bigot.

That's why. HTH.

So many women would feel for transgender causes if the cis privilege thing wasn't on the table.

'Cis privilege' is an abominable lie. People with other conditions requiring surgery don't shut down discussion of issues of personal experience entered into by people not requiring surgery. It is an abomination born of egotism.

Speaking up for trans issues is one thing but denying women's issues while saying you are a woman will never, ever get my support, regardless of what genitalia you were born with or how you choose to express your gender.

Siani definitely doesn't know what cis means.

Anecdotes are not data.

Quite.

So why are we expected to accept without question that transwomen are women based on their anecdotes without a shred of scientific data to back it up?

I don't think women should be obliged to. But I think some women will further the trans cause ( because it doesn't hurt to help people even if they aren't the same as you, e.g. I sign petitions about job centre sanctions, tax credits etc even though I'm not in receipt of either cos I feel it's the right thing to do) if they felt that the trans issues were aligned to their own and not directly opposed to women's issues.

I'm sad that a real issue, trans issues, are being ignored by some in the trans community as they compete with women's issues.

I also think women's issues are very important but it's sad that certain members of the trans community are spoiling it for the majority.