WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

[KKCupCakes]

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/2502963-Guest-post-Sandi-Toksvig-The-time-is-right-for-the-Womens-Equality-Party?

She's so politically correct and desperate for supporters it's painful

'The fear that she will never "pass" and will then have to live as a man but with breasts - just shows how unprepared they were.'

Or perhaps people tried to warn them but they stuck their fingers in their ears and said lalalala. I have a suspicion that T people are very adept at hearing only what they want to hear, creating their own version of reality. In may ways they come across like contestants on X Factor or American Idol who can't sing a note but believe they are the next big thing in music.

The anxiety about how they will look as 'women' illustrates I think that they have no interest in ordinary women or looking like ordinary women. They certainly do not want to be ordinary women. Their interest in the feminine centres only on how 'feminine' looks and even at that their view is completely warped - it is 'magazine feminine', i.e. the version of the feminine that is created by (mainly male) art directors. Is it the counterpart of alleged 'penis envy', I wonder?

We got to this point because there are stupid women like Sophie Walker doing our talking for us.

WelshHairs, yes you are absolutely correct and you have been correct all along.

Well ladies, we're finished. The so called "women's equality party" is prioritising the rights of a subset of men over biological women.

RIP women's rights. At least I will be able to tell my daughter I fought against it when she asks why we let this happen.

I'm going to be all over WEP's twitter feed. Maybe I can convert some more women to the radfem side while I'm at it - I feel like I'm no longer needed on MN.

Yep,what a complete and utter fuck up.

Anyone off to patent the "XX equality party"?

And to think i'd been contemplating changing my political allegiance.

Oh well. Fuck that for a game of tin soldiers then.

This is only my second post on this thread, which I have been following avidly (huge thanks again to everyone who has posted so eloquently). My first post, pages back, was drawing the comparison between transwomen and Rachel Dolezal - summarise - most people consider RD deluded and wrong, she can't choose her race, and no matter what she does to her external appearance, no matter what she does socially, no matter what she says, she cannot become Black (or African American, or whatever it is she is currently claiming she is).

So to take Sophie Walker's position and apply it to issues of race (and why not?), anyone who identifies as Black should have their rights fought for on the same grounds of race and ethnicity as people who are actually Black? That e.g. the Southall Black Sisters should include White-born people who identify as Black in their remit?

(Sorry, not writing particularly well - tired and about to go to bed, but wanted to get my point down.)

It would seem I am a TERF. And pretty proud of it!

Well that was disappointing. There has to be a way of protecting female spaces without all this 'TERF' stuff. I don't want anyone to suffer at all, it must be horrific to feel like you're in the wrong body.

At the same time however, there needs to a common sense approach. I have yet to see any situation where women have actually been listened to. Look at the girls bathroom issue in the US school recently, they made their wishes very clear but one person apparently trumped all their rights. Same with that person with the girls swim team and the changing rooms. There needs to be a bit of forward thinking, not what's happening at the moment.

Of course it's only about tits and hair. What else is there to women after all but the way they look to the male gaze.

I'm speechless. If this view is what women are up against then farewell feminism

I've got to say, that I am really depressed about this.

I may able to vent on here but I genuinely don't think my voice is heard elsewhere.

I'm not on twitter but we need a hashtag like #SexNotGender

There has got to be a way of referring to #TheGroupFormerlyKnownAsWomen

There are bloody millions of us and not all of us want to give away our rights to be identified correctly.

I'm liking the first hash tag

Actually, since Sophie is tweeting about breastfeeding in the houses of parliament, what would be really illustrative is if a few transactivists chose to express their views there about how cissexist it is for this to be framed as a women's issue because men breastfeed too.

I don't think Sophie has been exposed to the logical conclusion of transactivism and how sucking the meaning out of language drains the ability to name injustice or fight for anything.

So much of this for me is about language
We have got ourselves into a ridiculous situation whereby gender is reified as some immutable fact when the nature of it is absolutely up for debate
Then people talk about transitioning from one gender to another as if a gender is more than how you present on the outside
And people decide they are agender as if not identifying with feminine or masculine gender roles is some kind of condition rather than just being a part of the human experience

So much of this would be clarified if people used sex when they meant sex. Being trans sexual makes so much more sense than being trans gender. Sex dysphoria is a condition that makes sense whereas gender dysphoria doesn't.

Sex dysphoria is a condition that makes sense whereas gender dysphoria doesn't.

The thing that keeps on making me go is that most of us have gender dysphoria - to a greater or lesser degree, but from the time we learn to talk we're querying gender! Every time a toddler goes "why's that just for girls/boys?"; every time a woman finds out her male counterpart's paid more; every time a teenager gets catcalled or labelled a pansy; whenever a woman finds she's 'disappeared' on maternity leave; each time a man feels despair at his inability to 'provide' - and at countless other moments - we feel distanced by, wronged by, and misunderstood according to our gender.

It's not usual to analyse those moments gender-critically, and this is understandable. We're fed gender from the moment of birth, taught that it's real and important. We're also taught that it's inborn and we get the message it's immutable. To be 'trans' does take courage in this respect. Perhaps it's time we all woke up to what gender really is, and how it lets us all down. And that it doesn't come physically attached to your reproductive organs.

My gender citical transman friend showed me this...

Why we should all question gender norms.

That was very good, MrsTP. Thank you for posting it. The end was chilling: it highlights that we are all kept in line by fear of extreme violence. It happened to Cecilia the transwoman, but we're all subliminally aware it could happen to us.

As an aside, I'm pretty shocked by his remarks about Copenhagen! I've absorbed the message that Denmark values equality above all else, yet the Copenhagen he's describing is significantly less tolerant than anywhere I've been in England.

We are not tolerant enough yet, though. The "straight world order" is as hierarchical and oppressive here. And it oppresses us all.

Gosh that's good - very moving. Something for us all to think about in there.