WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

[KKCupCakes]

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

But, Lunch, it's a female cock. It's completely different from a male cock. And you'd be a transphobic lesbian because, even if you don't like cock, you're bigoted for not liking female cock.

I am not making this up!

In which case I'd role my eyes tell him to stop being a drama llama and walk away. I don't engage in conversation with knob heads.

Lesbians don't like cock and balls. End of.

And then you're called a transphobic bigot and receive rape and death threats.

lunchpack we all agree with you, but these people are delusional and anyone who points out the emperor is naked, ends up on the receiving end of very nasty threats and abuse, as well as having their details (address, phone number etc) splashed all over the Internet and social media.

Whereas for some reason it's fine for trans lesbians to not want to fuck each other.

Also "vagina fetishists" and "obsessed with genitals".

I hadn't thought about that, Stromba

One would kind of expect a person who's sexually attracted to females to 'fetishise' the vagina in a sexual situation. Trans lesbians moaning about the cotton ceiling certainly sound like they do ...

I need to get my thoughts away from this line!

The party line is that seeing another transwoman's penis would trigger their dysphoria (but using their own to penetrate a woman is fine somehow). I'm sure the real reason is that they don't believe any of their own real woman just like any other/female penis crap.

I've honestly been really upset about this for a few days now. I'm just not used to not fully embracing the most liberal cause of the moment, you know? I feel so strange and discombobulated because it seems so at odds with who I am, and yet my feminist side is RAGING (so is my latent "this is some nonsensical bullshit" Midwestern American farmer's side that rears up every now and then) and I want to DO something.

I wonder if I've always kind of had a niggle that something wasn't right, though. A few years back my friend gave me a picture book for DS, about a little boy who was really a little girl. I never read it to him, it just didn't sit right. But I never felt I could tell her that.

The phrase disappearing up yer own arse springs to mind.

I feel exactly the same, biopsy, so no biscuits from me.

Boopsy

Yes.

I don't feel they hate their body, I feel they hate what society tells them they must be because of that body.

No biscuits from me either, boopsy. I pretty much agree, except I am now questioning the wisdom of even calling people like Bruce Jenner and Lila Perry "she" as it seems that was the beginning of a very slippery slope. It started as a courtesy, as pp have said upthread, but now it seems that was actually the first inroads into creating the mass delusion that a man can actually "be" or become a woman, in any real sense.

Given that real, actual women - women who are already so massively disadvantaged in so many ways - are now directly suffering and losing out and being endangered by the acceptance, the general embracing of this delusion, I think it's important enough to challenge it even on this level. Once we start saying we agree, we believe this person is female... Well, we are now seeing where that ends up.

You'd have to go back in time 6-12 months to get much in the way of biscuits here boopsy. I used be one of a handful of posters who was openly gender critical but these days we seem to outnumber the pro-trans camp.

I feel that way too TalkingintheDark. I think it is pandering to fantasists and we are shooting ourselves in the foot once again by being too nice.

I'm usually against slippery slope arguments on the basis you can plant your flag at any point and say "this is as far as you go". On this issue however I think there is mass gas lighting going on with the encroachment of "transwomen are women" and what that means. Many women have been willing to accept that concept as "let's go along with this out of kindness to people who are suffering". If you really believe it, though, the proponents of the cotton ceiling are correct in saying "if you are attracted to women, why are you not attracted to us?" Of course, the real answer is that it is because they are not women. This is why Owen Jones was so enraged at being asked whether he would have sex with a transman. It's actually a pretty good bell-weather test to ask anyone who says they are straight or homosexual if they would have sex with a non-op trans person who identifies with the relevant sex. It gets to the core of whether a person really believes a trans person is the sex they identify as. But asking the question makes you literally the worst person that ever lived, who can be castigated in Guardian columns etc.

Cheerful

There's talk of explaining transgenderism to children in tbe UK using storybooks about penguins, which I think is wholly inappropriate. Not surprised you didn't read the book your friend bought to your son!

All debate is good. I am not attracted to trans men. That is not because I'm trans phobic. I am not attracted to working class men either and I prefer blonde or red haired men who are clever and fit. I don't think our sexual attraction to others is based on racial or other prejudices. In the same way the fact I don't find myself sexually attracted to women does not mean I am anti women's rights.

I do think at times trans men can take over women's spaces and you feel you are back in an all male environment where you can hardly get a word in edgeways as some men like to drown women out. I also have always had huge sympathy with people born feeling trapoped in the wrong body. Even back in the 70s as a teenager I remember reading about April Ashley I think it was.

There are not many trans people around though so we need to keep it all in proportion along with trying to be kind to everyone and learning what vocabulary makes people feel comfortable.

I remember reading the law cases 30 years ago about gender in the UK - originally you couldn't change gender in English law. The in about 2004 we allowed it which I think was a positive and fair change.