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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

847 replies

KKCupCakes · 31/10/2015 21:49

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

OP posts:
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AuntGertrude · 05/11/2015 22:22

There is a thread on Teens at the moment about TG daughters and concerns - as it has evolved, a large number of the mums commenting on their daughters who are expressing gender fludiity/desires to be transboys are also saying that their daughters are on the spectrum (have been diagnosed).
Some also are concerned that going for counselling at a young age there are dangers that this can lead to feeling confirmed in something that is still fluctuating, and many teens self-confirm by spending huge amounts of time on TG sites.

Garlick · 05/11/2015 22:24

That's a sensible commentary, slugs.

As soon as I first saw this idea raised (it bobs up occasionally, like an unflushable poo), I thought of the fact that emotional trauma produces many symptoms that look a bit ASD-like. I know this because I have a form of PTSD, have had over 10 years' treatment, and have explored this very thing in depth with my therapists. I officially don't have an ASD or a personality disorder, both of which I'd self-diagnosed on a reasonable basis.

We're not likely to overlook the emotionally traumatic nature of gender dysphoria. We're always being told about it. This will produce symptoms of extreme self-consciousness, social glitches and behavioural dysregulation. Unfortunately there's a large cohort of professionals with a transgender agenda (heh, say that out loud!); the more sympathetically they can pathologise GD, the more authority they accrue and more confused, vulnerable young people will be sent their way for transformation. As your source points out their studies are woolly, biased and uncontrolled. Nothing much to see here. Unless you're an emotionally fragile young person with a poorly-diagnosed ASD, in which case you may be at some risk of having your identity reshaped.

Garlick · 05/11/2015 22:25

dangers that this can lead to feeling confirmed in something that is still fluctuating, and many teens self-confirm

Yes :( It's like a vast, unauthorised experiment.

Garlick · 05/11/2015 22:38

Just realised I typed a bit too fast. To clarify, I'm saying the 'experts' make insufficient distinction between trauma symptoms (to be expected in people suffering fundamental dissatisfaction with their bodies) and autism symptoms.
Your ordinary Joe Bloggs can't be expected to understand these distinctions.
The 'experts' have a vested interest in not making them.
There's no solid data.
Stated correlations are statistically unsound.

mathanxiety · 06/11/2015 06:00

Thank you for that study, Slugs, and thank you for your comments Hedgehog, on the autism/T issue. I am very inclined to agree with you.

I also think there is much to Garlick's suggestion: 'Unfortunately there's a large cohort of professionals with a transgender agenda (heh, say that out loud!); the more sympathetically they can pathologise GD, the more authority they accrue and more confused, vulnerable young people will be sent their way for transformation.' I am amazed to see this cascade of unhappy individuals appearing out of the woodwork as it were. I wonder how much of it is due to (un)professional unscrupulousness.

mathanxiety · 06/11/2015 06:01

Empress -- I signed the petition.

howtorebuild · 06/11/2015 09:12

One day some forms of psychology will be viewed as en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism is today.

EmpressKnowsWhereHerTowelIs · 06/11/2015 09:23

Thanks Math, & everyone else who's signed.

TalkingintheDark · 06/11/2015 10:24

Oh yes, duly signed of course! Smile

LovelyFriend · 06/11/2015 11:54

I've signed too.

HermioneWeasley · 06/11/2015 20:54

I've asked on Sandi Toksvig's guest blog what the WEP's stance on biological women having woman only space is

HairyLittleCarrot · 06/11/2015 23:23

yes I signed and also posted on the WEP thread.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/11/2015 10:42

I doubt very much the organisations the petition is aimed at will take any notice, firstly because most of what they do these days is for trans people, very little for gays and lesbians, and secondly I would bet a considerable amount of money that a lot of their funding comes ultimately from the medical companies who produce synthetic hormones.

However it has been very interesting to read the comments (which now seem to be inaccessible), and see how much support there is for the petition from gay men.

QueenStromba · 07/11/2015 11:00

Gay star news have responded to the petition. They may as well change their name to trans star news and be done with it. The comments are worth a read though - there really does seem to be a backlash coming from gay male quarters. It's nice to see as previously they seemed to be leaving it for lesbians to try and sort out.

I've also signed the petition and posted questions about WEP's stance on Tara Hudson and the transgender agenda along with an intro to gender critical feminism.

Here's the thread in case anyone else wants to post but can't find it.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/11/2015 11:05

I can't see the comments.

QueenStromba · 07/11/2015 11:17

They take a minute to load, but they are still there.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/11/2015 11:33

Maybe because I am on my phone? It just says there are zero comments so far.

QueenStromba · 07/11/2015 12:13

Have you got the Facebook app installed?

ShortcutButton · 07/11/2015 13:35

Its farcical really. Transactivist object to T being separated from LGB. They think its beneficial to stand together. They also insist that they belong with women.

These 2 communities are being vocal in saying T people aren't part of the communities. Trans issues are different and separate

Why the hell can't they stand alone? Why are they constantly trying to associate with other groups/demographics/communities?? And why wont they take no for an answer?

What is wrong with just being transgender??Confused

Garlick · 07/11/2015 13:47

What is wrong with just being transgender??

It's a fundamental difference in comprehension. Most transwomen believe they are women and have always been girls/women; physical body irrelevant or inappropriate.

We say we are women because of our physical bodies. These two perspectives can never reconcile.

Since many believe they are gay women, there's a similar conflict of understanding with 'cis' gay people.

One of the few areas where I agree with the more verbally competent transactivists is that I want to see gender & sexuality understood as independent and variable for all, while biological sex is fixed and immutable. Regrettably, this is a step too far for the loudest activists; they seem unable to distinguish between sex and gender. Which is, of course, my big gripe with them!

EmpressKnowsWhereHerTowelIs · 07/11/2015 14:18

@WEP_UK have just tweeted about Sandi Toksvig's post if anyone wants to comment there.

ShortcutButton · 07/11/2015 14:26

Mine too garlick

And I'm afraid that if a person won't/can't distinguish between sex and gender then I consider them either a bit thick, or to be having an ulterior motive

They totally refuse to acknowledge that what united biological women is their biology and the way we are treated by society because of our biology

HermioneWeasley · 07/11/2015 15:57

Did you see in the Gay Star News comments the lesbian complaining that she'd been abused and called transphobic for not accepting TW as viable sexual partners? She had one TW telling her that nobody wanted to fuck her anyway (not at all acting like a man there!) and one TW very patiently and articulately explaining that she should be attracted to gender and personality, and that she had a very narrow definition of "lesbian" which was "archaic". The worry is more the TW in the second category - the first can be dismissed, but the second come across as reasonable and non threatening on the surface.

LunchpackOfNotreDame · 07/11/2015 15:58

If I were a lesbian my retort to that wouldn't be very articulate. I'd just say I'm not into cock ta love

ShortcutButton · 07/11/2015 16:12

Yeah, mansplaining just becomes transplaining