To find the terms Cool Wives and Handmaidens...

[DioneTheDiabolist]

...deeply offensive?

I was on a thread today where these phrases were used. I challenged them as IMO they are as bad as the word "slut". Disgusting names that are used exclusively to judge women and put them down.

I am a feminist and none of the feminists I know in RL tolerate the labelling of women in negative terms. However the response I received was so surprising that I thought I would ask: AIBU to find the terms "Cool Wives/Girls" and "Handmaidens" demeaning, dismissive, misogynistic insults?

Its a word! if you dont give it a negative meaning then it won't have.

You are not a 'cool wife' if you are happy with opposite sex friendships and porn. You might be a 'cool wife' if you are unhappy with it but don't speak up because you don't want to come across as insecure etc

Exactly U2

But too often it's used to describe the former, rather than the latter.

Or rather to insult women who fall into the former category, because some people just cant get their heads around some women being happy about different things.

Silly really.

I take 'cool wife' to mean a woman who does object to certain behaviour from her husband but won't be up front and say so, out of fear of being thought of as somehow controlling or needy. So she puts up with him behaving disrespectfully.

Handmaiden is similar in that a woman is subjucating her wishes to that of her 'partner'.

I can't get worked up about these terms - sometimes they accurately describe the truth of a given situation.

I get much more pissed off with people who judge sahm as somehow not having a work ethic/setting a bad example to their dc or people who judge wohm as outsourcing the raising of their dc. These are views which have a much more negative impact on women than the use of the phrase 'cool wife'!

subjugate I can spell, honestly

Slug, if you AdvanceSearch Cool Wives/Girls and Handmaidens you will be able to see examples and their context.

I challenged it because it was in the OP's OP. I didn't want to derail the thread too much, so I started this one. And I'm glad I did. Other women here are saying that they feel the same.

Seagreen, I know that dealing with sexism, and misogyny day in and day out is frustrating. But if your response to that frustration is to call women that you do not know, insulting names on the Internet, blame them for misogyny, then I think that you need to revisit the reason that feminism exists and is still needed today. It exists to help and support women to make better choices. I see no help or support in blaming them and calling them names.

Ive just asked my DS of 18 what being cool as a girl would mean and he said she's her own person and takes not shit.

Pinot, it's 'cool' said sarcastically though, to mean the opposite. Real cool would be not taking any shit. 'Cool wives' are putting up with a lot of stuff that doesnt sit well with them, out of fear.

I actually think that, used properly, they are quite useful terms to describe maladaptive behaviours of some women who haven't figured out how to assert themselves in the face of shitty behaviour by men. At worst, the behaviour undermines the efforts of other women who are trying to stand up for themselves.

I've never called anybody either though, because it's only likely to make them more defensive, and it's pretty rude.

I can't get worked up about these terms - sometimes they accurately describe the truth of a given situation.

Yes but I think the point is, that more often lately it's far from accurate.

It's basically dismissing some women as liars, because they're genuinely ok with something that some other women are not.

I find it more offensive that in 2015 women are still expected to please men so much the inflexible of porn in our society and that girls from a young age are bombarded with highly sexualised images that far too often influence them

Read a magazine that is aimed at young women and is not from a feminist slant it's fucking depressing

And look at the role models young women and girls have who are all over twitter and media coverage the Kardashians have far more followers than any sports women, writers, scientists, journalist and so on

What's wrong with questioning someone man or woman who supports misogyny

I actually think that, used properly, they are quite useful terms to describe maladaptive behaviours of some women who haven't figured out how to assert themselves in the face of shitty behaviour by men.

I can see your point, but if those women haven't figured out how to assert themselves, how is being insulted by other women on the internet going to help?

Surely there are better ways of going about it?

Its a word, its a positive word.

People may use it, as any other word to pretend maybe they are being something theyre not but its hardly something sinister and anti feminist.

Its a word, its a positive word.

People may use it, as any other word to pretend maybe they are being something theyre not but its hardly something sinister and anti feminist.

pinot it's not a positive word when used in the context that the OP and many people on this thread are talking about.

I've linked upthread to an advanced search on 'cool wives'. If you have a look at most of those threads, you'll see it in the context the OP is talking about.

Cunt is also a positive word, but generally you'll find it's not used in a positive context.

I'm pretty sure I've used the phrase 'handmaiden'. Generally on a thread where someone is describing abusive behaviour and people are trying to support her and someone comes on and says, "he needs more love/BJs/you to do even more wifework/feel 'special'" when what he needs is a kick up the arse and an eviction.

Internalised sexism is real and I do agree that calling people names won't solve the issue. Women ignoring and minimising inequalities is frustrating. But I know that having open eyes is really hard and sometimes I wish I could switch my feminist radar off.

It's this kind of shit I really object to.

Ive known people to use very many "positive" words in a negative manner.

I object to that shit too MrsTP

But that's a million miles away from a woman saying she enjoys porn, doesn't mind her DH going to dinner with a female friend, and being dismissed as a 'cool wife'...which is basically saying she's lying about being genuinely ok with it all.

how many times have we seen on here a women post something along the lines of I find it upsetting my dh is watching porn, I feel uncomfortable that he is going out for drinks with female colleague (the uncomfortable bit is often ignored) my dh is going to stag do in Amsterdam and I am not happy about it

You will have some falling over themselves telling the op they have trust issues and it's all harmless

And most people who have had an unfaithful partner will say I felt something was wrong that could be why they are feeling this way but no for many it's about their insecurity

It's pretty bloody patronising to say that women can't be criticised or called out on anti feminist behaviour.......

same as someone saying shes "happy" with his shite.

same as someone saying "Im ok" with it.

the word "cool" and being a "cool" wife doesnt mean that to me.

being a "cool" wife means one that takes no shit.

I've had an ego-advanced search and I have used it three times on here. Once when people were queuing up to tell someone that her DH shouldn't have to do any cleaning because he works, once when a BFing mother was objecting to strippers at her DF's stag (and was told 'what happens on a stag stays on a stag') and once when a poster was being told that her DH shouldn't have to help with night wakings ever because he works.

It's not differences in opinion I object to. It's women who choose to behave in a very gender-role conformist way telling other women that that is the right way. If someone wants their partner to never do any housework, child-wrangling, support, feeding, spending time or frankly, fidelity, that's entirely their business. Telling another women that she isn't up to scratch when she needs support and care? That's different.

Having a different view of porn/sex work is trickier. Because it's not just the wife who is involved. The social, political and economic impacts of this kind of work are not just for one person to say, "it's cool, I don't mind him watching porn/having used sex workers in Thailand/getting private dances".

It rather depends on how you define anti feminist behaviour.

The problem is you just don't know if you're being a cool girl because you are really ok with all that stuff or because you have convinced yourself you like it because you don't see yourself as having much choice and don't want to seem to feminist.

People generally just don't have that level of self-awareness.

I'd like to think that feminists tend not to judge cool girls because they recognise that we all have to make our way in the society we live in and because most of us have been there ourselves.

It rather depends on how you define anti feminist behaviour.