To find the terms Cool Wives and Handmaidens...

[DioneTheDiabolist]

...deeply offensive?

I was on a thread today where these phrases were used. I challenged them as IMO they are as bad as the word "slut". Disgusting names that are used exclusively to judge women and put them down.

I am a feminist and none of the feminists I know in RL tolerate the labelling of women in negative terms. However the response I received was so surprising that I thought I would ask: AIBU to find the terms "Cool Wives/Girls" and "Handmaidens" demeaning, dismissive, misogynistic insults?

Judging by this thread I don't think the 95% will be reducing any time soon.

at Sparkling

I don't think this thread was about Bertrands comment on another specific thread, it was about the general use of the terms on MN.

I find the terms dismissive in themselves. Sometimes they may be accurate opinions but I still don't think they should be used.

But more often than not; they're not used appropriately or accurately and are used to dismiss another posters experience or opinion.

The threads where an OP says they don't want their DP to go on a stag weekend as they have small children at home that they want help with and one of the first responses will say ' I wouldn't like it but I'm sure the cool wives will be along soon to say it's fine'. It completely dismisses the opinion of women with small children who genuinely wouldn't mind and suggests they lack the intelligence or confidence to object instead.

It's that I don't like. The implication that women can't possibly be making their own informed opinions and boundaries in their relationships and are either pretending not to mind their DP going on a stag weekend or are unwittingly conforming to patriarchal conditioning.

Breakingdad - no, they are not really those kinds of compromises. They are 'lifestyle' choices and housework/work

I can't C&P Bert so any inaccuracies in my posts are due to human error, not deliberate malicious editting.

I don't use the word disingenuous very often because it's often misused on here but Bertrand you really are being disingenuous.

laughingcompletely agree with your post. Yes it's the suggestion that i don't know my own mind and that other posters are smarter purely because i don't have a problem with my partner doing certain things.
It's simply an insult used to dismiss women's opinions that you don't agree with.

FWR is a specialist board where people go to discuss specific topics. None of the specialist boards are really all that busy, because most of us use this site to chat. I've even heard that some people use it to discuss parenting and child-rearing!?

You're not going to go into FWR unless you specifically want to discuss something relating to feminism or women's rights, so it's never going to be that busy. I've seen some really interesting threads in there, and have learnt a great deal.

Many threads get derailed, and it can be frustrating even just for lurkers to see the same old issues - 'but men face that, too!' - raised over, and over, again so that the focus becomes on defending that, rather than the topic at hand. For me, that is the most frustrating part of most feminist-related threads, all the white noise that inevitably accompanies and derails them.

I do firmly think that Mumsnet is a feminist-leaning space overall and that is why I love it so much. It feels a bit different from the rest of the world, and that's a good thing. Of course, this is brought into sharp focus in FWR, just like people are a LOT more focused on dogs in the dog forum, or religion in the spirituality forum. No-one would expect those posters to temper their thoughts and posts in those areas.

Agree completely with the dowager

I, too, agree with your post laughing. I find it bizarre.

Yes, usually stag or lap dancing club or lazy boyfriend threads. For example, an OP writes that she is unhappy about her boyfriend visiting a lap dancing club. Many posters (me included) come on and tell her it is ok to feel unhappy and question the relationship, some posters come on and say they would not end a relationship over this as they do not really have a problem with lap dancing. It becomes a lively debate with posters from each side putting their views across respectfully as well as continuing to support the OP… then a poster comes along and dismisses the posters who would not leave their partner over lap dancing as ‘cool’ and ‘handmaiden’ types. At this point I wish MN had an ‘eye roll’ emoticon. 'Cool wives' and 'handmaiden' are used as to insult, dismiss and shut down an alternative opinion.

It reminds me of when a very loud MN feminist told me I had 'daddy issues' (:eye roll:) because I had the temerity to disagree with her views on something.

If my DH went to a lap dancing club I would shove a red hot poker up his arse. Other women have other choices and whatever they do I would not condemn them.

Agree yvette
derxaalthough i feel opposite to you i wouldn't tell you you were wrong to feel like that.

I see the cool girl as a more generic issue though and I think most of us have at some point in our lives played that role.

I've worked with teenagers a lot and I see it all the time. Girls laughing a bit too loudly at the men's jokes and smiling ironically at the soft porn music videos constantly playing in the bar as if it really doesn't bother them.

And maybe some women it doesn't but the point is it does bother a lot of women who just go along and do their best to pretend they are too cool to care because who doesn't want to be in with the In group after all?

Men are the In group and their culture is more respected. You don't see men priding themselves on their knowledge of chickflicks do you? But you get girls being accused of pretending to like geek culture just for status.

I don't think it's an insult, more of a description.

dowager you are right about fwr. It is specialist but it is also quite intimidating.
I personally like posting there but I only go there when I'm feeling reasonably mentally robust. There are some great posters there hi slugs

I can understand why a lot of mners avoid it.

They fall into the 'terms you only hear on mumsnet' category

Except ---- have never heard them

Ever

So

*They fall into the 'terms you only hear on mumsnet' category

Except ---- have never heard them

Ever

So confused*

You read very different threads to me then! I've lost count of the number of times I've seen them thrown at posters as insults.

If you have the right topics hidden its very possible not to see them.

DP hasn't been to a strip club, but he MCs a burlesque show. I haven't been to one yet but I will next time I can get a babysitter.

I see it as an insult on lots of threads where members have nothingelse to say as the other person has no problem with their dp watching porn, going to stripclubs, having female friends....
Some women may go along with it, but not all do!
I wouldn't go along with anything.

Accepting what geek culture?
A lot of women are also into 'geek things'