Social service involvement

[Drained12345]

Don't really know where to start. My husband and son have had real issues. Major conflict over the last couple of years. Ds is now 16.

Have been physical altercations between them on quite a few occasions. I've had to call the police a few times. Ds lashed out at dh on most incidents, but after dh has got in his space or tried to snatch his phone off him as a 'consequence'. As a consequence, ss now have quite major involvement and ds is on a child in need plan, as long as I agree to keep dh and ds separate (will be cpp otherwise).
We are currently having to juggle them living in the house. I.e. 2 days for dh and 5 days for ds. I have two younger children who have witnessed all this violence.

So my question is, has anyone on here had ss involvement? Any experience of a cin plan or child protection plan or experience of domestic violence between husband and son and outcome?

I guess I just need some support. It's hellish.

Please no judgement. Have been proactive in getting help for both of them in past couple of years, and am drained.

Thanks for reading.

I agree with MaryZ

Your dh was the one with the choice here. He has received warnings, counselling and parenting advice. Where he could have chosen to walk away from ds's conflict instead he has chosen to continue to confront and provoke ds knowing the consequences for the whole family.

Your dh is a knob.

My reply was not a dig at you op, in fact it was meant as the opposite - this is not your problem to solve, it is your husband's. The fact he has spent 2 years of goodwill entrenching his position doesn't mean he has made it your problem either. It means unfortunately he has put you in a position to choose him or your children.
That is still his lookout, sometimes even in the most complex of situations things come down to one very simple position - people are either working with you or against you.
You who have stepped in.
You who has called the police.
You who has called ss.
You who posted about your accountability on this thread.
Your plan.
Your protective measures.
You who is taking all responsibility.

Where is he in all this? He's taking his way and expecting everyone else to hit the highway if they don't agree?
There's you all around, interjecting, getting help, dealing with the fall out, parenting all of your children, taking responsibility, being accountable and he's...in the middle of it all.
Sometimes a Geordian knot needs a sword through it, not unravelling.
Because he's not helping you, your son or the situation in any kind of proactive way apparently. And you can't be expected to just deal with that, it's going to have you on your knees and still not make anything ok. Putting your son to one side for a second, you deserve better than that in your partner and co-parent, who is meant to be an equal part of the team, not needing to be marshalled like an equally immature, stroppy child and removed from the house because he can't be trusted to the extent your dc were at risk of going on the register if he wasn't. There's absolutely a case to be made for personal responsibility - just not yours.
If you are asking what can you do to fix this situation as it stands then actually there is only one answer. If he starts working with you as part of both the problem, solution and family, then there's much more scope. But not just you hanging on two years of refusal to change and the promises of anger management jam tomorrow. Imo.

The person at fault is always the 'adult'.

Your 'D'H wants to win this and is prepared to keep on fighting. He has been dug into his trench for two years now, refusing to see things any way but his own.

Anger management courses presuppose that someone is having a hard time managing their anger, when in fact an 'angry' man is usually using his anger very effectively, to control and intimidate and get his own way, safeguard his ego, make sure everyone's attention is always focused on him, his mood, his possible response to things said or done or requests made. In other words, anger management courses are a load of codswallop. What your H needs is a complete personality transplant, a complete redefinition of his relationship with power.

Your other children are deeply affected by what is going on. Often a violent individual will make an example of one victim in order to keep the rest in line. No matter how good things may appear on the surface, everybody is sucked into the dynamic of domestic violence. Often the dynamic involves the creation of a golden child or children and a black sheep. The lucky, favoured ones are just as much victims as the outcast is. The damage done to them is emotional and psychological.

You are doing your absolute best to keep all the balls in the air, and you have all my sympathy. I thought I could manage and manage and manage, with an angry and controlling man and teens and younger children who were all being badly affected. It didn't come to SS involvement but if DD1 had called police the day exH attacked her and blamed her for assaulting him, then I would have been looking at immediate choices to make. I made my choice nonetheless. You are now looking at a situation where you must choose either your DS or your H.

You cannot keep on managing this.

I wonder how many posters have experience of aggressive teenagers?
Me

Seeyounearerthetime there's always a reason. You're answering 'I wasn't provoked' in terms of at the exact time of your violent behaviour. What about the years preceding? Are you still behaving like that? If not why not? Reasons can include mental or physical illness, abuse (not necessarily by the person you're being violent to) etc but there will be a reason.

Also the way the dh is behaving is not discipline (and I'm a believer in discipline), it's controlling, provoking, aggressive and abusive.

"I can see your DS coming to you in a few years time telling you he never felt supported..." If he goes to the OP at all. If things get much worse and OP continues to stay with her partner I can see the son cutting her off altogether!

"If so I'd like other posters to suggest how this situation is handled?" Yes it is abusive and aggressive behaviour from the stepfather. If it weren't (and I believe the op is not telling the whole story due perhaps to embarrassment) ss would not be involved, child would not be cin and CPP would certainly not be being mooted as a possible soon to be taken next step. The stepfather should be being an adult! Ie not getting aggressive and abusive every time, not holding the son solely responsible (who is still a child and as a pp has noted was very much a child when this started when he was only 14), staying much calmer and while it's acceptable to point out the behaviour is unacceptable at 16, even 14, the boy can be spoken to about any unacceptable behaviour at a later point when everyone's calmed down.

Actually with the OP stating that the stepfather is blocking the son from going elsewhere it sounds like the son is more mature and is trying to remove himself from a heated situation (trying to escape violent abuse even), and the stepfather is preventing that inflaming a situation that's already volatile!

"You don't snatch something or aggressively block a teenager's exit from an argument and then get to play the victim, I'm afraid." Spot on!

The dh is unwilling to address his anger issues from a perspective of taking responsibility for HIS unacceptable behaviour this will happen with the younger dc too when they're teens.

"He has the opinion that it's his way or the highway" then he has to go! If you don't get rid you are not a loving mother. Harsh but true.

A family therapist will not work in this situation as the dh is unwilling to accept responsibility for his actions.

I agree that the OP is probably being controlled/ea too if not physically and needs help to remove this man from her life BUT it still needs to be done.

My question was going to be: have you sat down in calmer moments with DS and DH to talk about this? Said that it is making you unhappy and asked them both to think about things? (it is DH as the adult who the onus is on to be proactive but perhaps a discussion would help DS take the point).

However if you're at the point where you're calling police then that is very serious. What does DH say about police involvement? What are his thoughts on the situation?

I dont think this is anything to do with him being adoptive Father, i think this is about ds growing up and starting to challenge him, this is a control issue

He may be 16 now, which is bad enough, but remember this started a few years ago, so he was 13/14? Still a child

I was kind of this teenager. And my mum did divorce my dad to "protect" me & we lived separetly from my dad for the rest of my teens.

I can't remember doing anything so bad that I deserved his punishments, but rather these punishments led to me behaving far worse. It was an endless cycle & the atmosphere in the house was horrific.

Leaving my dad left my mum in financial ruin, lonely & depressed at having failed.

They're back together now but once I had my ds the cycle returned & I realised my dad is actually very abusive, as this time I didn't retaliate.

I think with the benefit of hindsight your son may realise he should've acted differently. But your dh should know to act differently already. But I don't think people who's instinct is to be aggressive & violent, whether retaliating or not, can easily change.

I think you're doing your best in a really tough situation & I genuinely understand why you haven't ltb.

and to you OP. Youre having a tough time sounds as if there's a long way to go, but you will come out of it caring for yourself, your DS and other DC.

Dh has started an anger management counselling course

He should have done this years ago. As it is he's showed how he parents teenagers and, unless he's able to drastically modify his behaviour, this is how he will parent your younger dc when they reach puberty and beyond.

I feel that whatever I do, I'm tearing someone's life apart

In electing to parent your ds in a needlessly aggressive and confrontational manner, and in continuing to do so despite intervention from SS prior to their now 'major involvement', your h's refusal to listen any voice except his own has caused him to tear his own life, and the lives of you and your dc, apart.

Your dc have experienced and witnessed far too much violence in their short lives and, if you do not take steps to remove your h permanently from the family home, it won't be surprising if they replicate his and your behaviour in their adult lives.

The problem here is that the dad has had plenty of advice and guidance on how to parent differently but ignored it and still thinks he is right in her e he parents - despite frequent agression, social services involved and living apart from his family. Such rigid and inflexible parenting cannot be worked with sadly. It's probably time for you to make a decision.

Abusive people don't just reserve their behaviour for one person. It will eventually filter through to the whole household one way or another.

Difficult situation OP but I'm sorry I have to say that it would be an easy solution for me which would be to make your H leave. He doesn't sound like a nice person at all, this situation really isn't fair on your DS and I can only wonder when your relationship will breakdown as a result of events which I'm sure you don't want to happen.

OP listen to Maryz she is speaking a lot of sense.

Ok, so to try and answer some of the questions...

There have been several incidents. So, yes dh has retaliated. Latest example was... ds had asked for money for the train to see his girlfriend, but we had said no because he had refused to do any jobs in the house to earn it and had refused to look for a job.. so he said "fine I'll bunk the train then" dh started shouting at him "grow up!" "Dont be so stupid!" and blocked his way on the landing. Ds kicked him. Dh grabbed ds phone, ds put his arm round dhs neck to get phone and dh said ds was strangling him and ds had hold of dhs mouth, ds said some expletives and dh forcefully shoved ds in mouth. This was at the top of the stairs. They could have fallen. I called police. My younger two were at the bottom of stairs, watching everything. My 9 year old said "mum, I tried to shield youngest dcs eyes"

That must be terrifying for all your DC's and you.

Can you answer what DS behaviour is like when DH is off the scene and when with relatives?

At the point of him saying about bunking train I was inclined to say, "well if you choose to do that then you'll get caught and fined ds" but you cant physically stop him! He admitted later that he wasnt intending to "bunk"

My dh and his db witnessed their mother being physically, emotionally and verbally abused throughout their childhood and adolescence. In turn, she abused them. My dh has turned out ok, by let's just say he needs counselling for post traumatic stress disorder and anger management.

OP, I think teens do need to be put in place when they're out of line. They need boundaries and they need to be taught about and given responsibility. BUT your DH is going about the completely wrong way. Have the SS not discussed family counselling as an option?

Sorry but your DH was in the wrong there.
There was no need to either insult him or to physically block the way or to take away something from your ds hand.
All of these very unacceptable behaviours from yur DH and after 2 years of pparenting classes and anger management clases, he should have learnt that.

You also know the negative effect it has on your younger dcs seeing thier reaction. The 'older' one wanting to protect the yunger one is heartbreaking tbh.

yes your dh is escalating it if my dd said she would bunk the train i would say fine sell your laptop to pay the fine when you get caught or you could do your chores to earn the money and walk away i refuse to engage in my 15 year olds demands she recently stayed home rather than do her chores to get money to go out with friends she didnt moan about it she made her choice

Your answer would have been the right one. And to remind him he would be the one paying too.

Tbh, I know your DH has adopted him but I'm wondering how much tis feeling of stepfather/stepson is still at play (ie they act like that rather than father and son iyswim)

Ds is moody, grumpy and pretty rude when its just me him and younger dcs. Sonetimes we have a chat. Has been intimidating towards me on a few occasions. At the relatives house, he doesn't really chat. One word answers lol

Your DH will start on the younger DCs sooner rather than later.
And you seem unwilling to stop him.

Sorry, just read your most recent post. You should not have called the police. Do you yourself ever try to install guidance for ds? I think what's gone on here is perhaps from the word go their has been inconsistency in your approach to your parenting of your ds. Harsh as that sounds, I believe it to be true.