Social service involvement

[Drained12345]

Don't really know where to start. My husband and son have had real issues. Major conflict over the last couple of years. Ds is now 16.

Have been physical altercations between them on quite a few occasions. I've had to call the police a few times. Ds lashed out at dh on most incidents, but after dh has got in his space or tried to snatch his phone off him as a 'consequence'. As a consequence, ss now have quite major involvement and ds is on a child in need plan, as long as I agree to keep dh and ds separate (will be cpp otherwise).
We are currently having to juggle them living in the house. I.e. 2 days for dh and 5 days for ds. I have two younger children who have witnessed all this violence.

So my question is, has anyone on here had ss involvement? Any experience of a cin plan or child protection plan or experience of domestic violence between husband and son and outcome?

I guess I just need some support. It's hellish.

Please no judgement. Have been proactive in getting help for both of them in past couple of years, and am drained.

Thanks for reading.

I cross posted with your last post Aquarius. I'm sorry for what you've been through and seeing that am even more surprised at your lack of linking up of cause and effect here.
Those things are not ok, I think you are projecting a bit tbh, and it doesn't sound like you're coming from a super resolved functional place. That's just how it comes across however not fact.
I hope things are much better for you now though.

Confiscating a phone or stopping someone leaving is dealing with a self inflicted crisis.

Discipline is the building up of a mutually respectful teaching/listening relationship, and involves solid communication skills, investment in the relationship and the fostering of conditions where both parties are willing to put the relationship first.

I can appreciate that this is lonely for you, and very hard.

I think you have tried really hard for a long time to get the optimal end result here, through a lot of tiptoeing and picking up the pieces, a lot of furious peddling just to stay in one place. I can see how at this point you are realising that the tipping point has been reached and you suspect you have to do some serious thinking.

Please do not place much confidence in anger management courses, firstly because this course of your H's is too little too late, and secondly because people who behave like your H (putting his ego first, middle and last and flushing all other considerations basically down the loo) need so much more than an anger management course.

I second the suggestion of finding individual counselling just for you, where you could explore the sort of role you take on in a relationship or family, any patterns you find in how you deal with conflict, and overall where you see your life and hopes right now. The counsellor whould have experience dealing with individuals who are affected by living with someone who is inclined to be aggressive and controlling.

Can't you see the damage this is doing to your other 2 children? Just because SS haven't continued safeguarding concerns doesn't mean this isn't affecting them hugely. What happens when they become bolshy teens, what makes you think DH isn't going to grab their possessions, shove and push them? When you kid yourself that he wouldn't, can you answer why he would with DS but not them? No.

You might also like to explore whether your H is someone who creates chaos in a domestic situation.

Dh is being a bully. He is an adult your ds isn't. Standing in front of him blocking his way is very aggressive and is only inflaming an already volitile situation. As an adult dh should know when to step back. Sounds like he loves to pick on ds and wants to exercise his I'm the man in this house! Could be a bit of jealously on dh part. Maybe you and dc could have a break away in the half term. Give your dh time to reassess his appalling behaviour.
Any man that put his hands on my child would not be having second chances, deal breaker.

I wonder how many people posting on this thread have had to deal with a teenager whose behaviour is extremely challenging, and have managed it really well, without ever over reacting, or doing the wrong thing...

When I was posting here about my dd, who went through an incredibly difficult 4 years involving violence, stealing, damage to the family home, truanting etc, I got legions of posts along the lines of 'I would't let my child get away with that' followed by lots of suggestions about taking bedroom doors off hinges, confiscating phones, cutting off internet access, grounding etc....

Not saying that the OP's DH doesn't need to drastically change the way he responds to his step son (and if he can't make himself, then he must leave for everyone's sake) but I'm not without sympathy for him as well as for the OP.

I suspect from spending time on Teenagers that that advice would be in the context of setting expectations that are then systematically trampled over, and the consequences are deliberately applied, and don't involve someone directly challenging a teenager, causing a heated row, and then failing to find a way to avoid similar happening again.

Bernard you're right, nothing ever has yet been properly resolved. My dp have MH issues - through trauma and predisposed? It's a hard and lonely time for me too. I'm constantly stuck between a rock and a hard place.

My 9 year old said "mum, I tried to shield youngest dcs eyes"

So your younger DCs are subject to emotional abuse, because they are witnessing domestic violence? With your poor sod of a 9 year old already having to take on a protector's role? Oh dear. Presumably if their behaviour then deteriorates as a consequence, which is fairly likely, your "D"H will manage it similarly.

I'm about to enter having a teenage ds and he is already having traits of being a terror teen. Moody, mouthy, rows about having a wash, lazy, thinks the world owes him a living and back chatting. Normal teenage pushing your luck boundaries behaviour. Yes I have confiscated his phone but have never felt the need to have a stand off or get physical about it. I grew up in a house where my mother hated my step sister and regularly beat her to the point of torture. Horrible to see and I still feel guilt to this day witnessing it and not stepping in. Ss involvement, child at risk eventually taken away. It has massive impact on me and can relate to op Dc seeing this going on it isn't nice.

I sometimes feel I need counselling, tbh. I feel suffocated by my life's circumstances. But I just keep swimming...

her dh has a choice he is making the wrong choice clearly repeatedly and he has been told this for two years and has ignored it because he is "right"

the child starts with attitude the PARENT escalates it with shouting aggression and violence the child attempts to leave and the parent again reacts violence and aggression

in no one's eyes is that appropriate and normal is it? i dont see one example given by the op where the son begins the aggression he cops a bad mouth granted and needs to learn a lesson but "dh forcefully shoved ds in mouth. This was at the top of the stairs. They could have fallen. I called police. My younger two were at the bottom of stairs," this is a step too far by the parent

Things are sort of better, in the way that i get to dictate my life, not my so called elders.

"Are you thinking you can limp through the next two years until your DS leaves home and you can save your marriage that way? You will be sacrificing your older boy." Not just the older boy also the younger dc. They'll then know h means more to op than her dc, won't feel secure, will feel even more powerless wrt to h not forgetting what I and other posters suspect that h will do same with them when they teach the difficult teen years.

Custardo are you reading the same thread? The child is already on cin register that is NOT done lightly. Ss are already telling OP if this isn't sorted he'll be on CPP. That's basically how ss say 'your h is an abusive arse and you need to protect your child from him' they're not allowed to tell her to ltb overtly unfortunately!

When I look back, I could have reacted better, I could have made better choices. But I just didn't have proper, consists guidance or the maturity to do so. In this situation, nor does the ds have from his dh, likewise he is not mature enough.

I think the OP knows exactly what the problem is and what to do about it, but like a lot of women in DV situations she just hasn't quite reached the point of saying that enough is enough.

*consistant

Things could really get out of hand and one of them could end up being badly hurt the next time. This is a very toxic unhealthy situation. He shoved his hand into ds mouth. But said that ds was strangling dh!

Yeah, if I antagonize my child to the point of her throwing a tantrum I can't fault her for throwing a tantrum.

Your DH is basically antagonizing your son to his breaking point, then crying innocent when he lashes out. Your DH knows exactly what he's doing. Your son is only at fault as much as you can hold a 16 year old at fault. He's not allowed to walk off. He's not allowed to ignore and distract himself with his phone. Your DH is deliberately removing his two main coping mechanisms and forcing a confrontation.

But that said, DH and FIL had violent confrontations when DH was a kid. Children do not resort to violence with adults for no reason. I would put money on DH mentally or emotionally abusing him up to this point and this is his way of asserting himself and taking back control over his own life. You said yourself that DH is in anger management. That to me says that this is not a new problem, just that your son is now fighting back in the only way he knows how. There is no other reason that a child would hate an adult to that extent. Your son doesn't attack you, does he? Obviously it's a problem with DH.

I agree with the others, you need to put your children first, all of them and at the very least get a separation from DH to see how your DS's behavior changes.

Initially I thought, ok - you can sort it out. But from reading on your posts now, I think your husband is completely out of line. He has to either agree to change his "discipline" behaviour, or leave properly. Teenagers can be difficult - I was a ridiculously difficult teen. But your husband should not behave the way he has done, ever. Just not acceptable. I hope you will come to realise that he has to change or leave. Good luck with it all.

These messages help massively. Thank you

If you want help with your son, post in teenagers. There are loads of us over there struggling with difficult kids - but rarely is their behaviour provoked by idiot fathers hmm

This is the one thing I have ever seen you post EVER that I disagree with.

The overwhelming vast majority of the time nightmare behaviour in children where no condition exists (and even some where it does) the behaviour is provoked by the parenting stratigies or lack of them applied. Sometimes obviously sometimes not so,sometimes it's cause and effect over time some it's instantaneous.
But rarely is it not as a result of a patten of behaviour or otherwise on behalf of the person whose job it is to actually parent.

Of course none of that helps solve the issue when you are talking about 16yo's if nobody can step back and take responsibility for their own role in the circle because the end result is child with nightmare behaviour turns into young adult with nightmare behaviour and has to suffer the consiquences of that with the potential outcome of it not changing.

It is the reason why having a child "outside of parental control" is a CP issue and considered in the vast majority of cases to be a parenting issue that can managed more effectively by the LA

how are things?