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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Social service involvement

249 replies

Drained12345 · 18/10/2015 17:45

Don't really know where to start. My husband and son have had real issues. Major conflict over the last couple of years. Ds is now 16.

Have been physical altercations between them on quite a few occasions. I've had to call the police a few times. Ds lashed out at dh on most incidents, but after dh has got in his space or tried to snatch his phone off him as a 'consequence'. As a consequence, ss now have quite major involvement and ds is on a child in need plan, as long as I agree to keep dh and ds separate (will be cpp otherwise).
We are currently having to juggle them living in the house. I.e. 2 days for dh and 5 days for ds. I have two younger children who have witnessed all this violence.

So my question is, has anyone on here had ss involvement? Any experience of a cin plan or child protection plan or experience of domestic violence between husband and son and outcome?

I guess I just need some support. It's hellish.

Please no judgement. Have been proactive in getting help for both of them in past couple of years, and am drained.

Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
Seeyounearertime · 18/10/2015 18:48

It doesn't sound like DH is abusive to me?

From what I can see / read it goes like this:
Altercation, 16yo boy does something like swears or gets abusive toward DH
DH, the boys ADOPTIVE father tries to discipline
16yo boy becomes angry and physically aggressive
DH attempts to minimise harm to himself and the child by physically restraining the boy.
The boy lashes out even more.

Does that sum it up OP from what you can see?

If so I'd like other posters to suggest how this situation is handled? Is the adult and parent supposed to ignore bad behaviour and let the child get away with it? Is the adult supposed to stand there and get hit? Kicked? Sworn at?

NanaNina · 18/10/2015 18:50

So sorry you are going through this. I am a retired social worker - had a career spanning some 30 years all in Children's Services (children up to 18) I also have a son (now in his 40s) from a previous relationship and when he was a teenager my DP (been together over 40 years) who was his SF used to pick on him for trivial things, and I always jumped to my son's defence, and that caused me and DP to argue. Mind it never went beyond DP getting annoyed at my son, and son arguing back. That was all many years ago and now they have an excellent relationship and have done for many years.

I think step-parenting and adolescence can be a tricky combination as is the case in your family at the moment. You say this has been going on for 2 years, which is a long time to live in this kind of turmoil, and I'm sure you are drained. Can I ask how you react when there is trouble between your partner and son. It's just that my DP told me (many years later) that it wasn't my son that annoyed him, but it was me always jumping to protect him, and so never taking DP's "side" as it were. Mind for me it was pure instinct to jump to defend my son. Actually I've just remembered my DP standing on the stairs and preventing my son from coming downstairs but he soon gave way. I honestly don't remember how long this went on for, but a couple of years I would say.

As far as social services is concerned, I am surprised they are involved tbh given that your son is 16 because although still a minor legally, they do tend to be less proactive with 16 year olds. If they went down the safeguarding route they could go to court to ask for a Care Order if they believe they had grounds. This would mean they would have parental responsibility (PR) You wouldn't lose PR but the LA would be in the "driving seat" so to speak. BUT I think it would be extremely unlikely for them to seek a Care Order on a 16 year old. If they did and were granted one, they would place him in a Children's Home or with foster carers.

Where is DP spending 5 days a week? This isn't really a workable solution is it - ok it might satisfy social workers that your son is not going to be harmed by his SF, but it could possibly cause even more resentment/tension between your son and partner couldn't it? Have social services attempted to sit down with you and help your partner and son to have a better understanding of each other, and avoid these confrontations. Adolescence is a time of great hormonal imbalance and this can cause aggression, especially in boys because of the testosterone. I think SFs can see their authority being challenged and can't cope with that and this can lead to trouble. I think this can happen in non step families too - I worked a lot with adolescents and family conflict. This might sound strange, but this sort of behaviour between the adolescent and the male can be seen in apes, especially baboons, as the adolescent males try to "flex their muscles" and the dominant male reacts.

Hmm.........where to go from here. Can you and your DP communicate about what's going on. Is he willing to recognise that he needs to stand back and avoid confrontation with your son? Are you happy in the relationship (apart from the problem obviously) is he a good father to the younger children.

You need family therapy really, so that everyone in the family can have space to talk about their own feelings, and a trained therapist to encourage this expression and work on conflict resolution. I don't think the LA will be up for paying for that though!

CatMilkMan · 18/10/2015 18:51

Am I missing one of OPs posts? Her DH physically restrains the 16 year old DS after he becomes violent but I don't see him abusing the son.
Do they actually fight? I'm not I'm not being helpful, sorry.

Maryz · 18/10/2015 18:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NorthenFeminist · 18/10/2015 18:53

Seeyounearertime children become violent because they are being parented in a violent, abusive manner. The child is not being parented in a healthy way. The step fathers way of parenting is causing the ds to behave like this.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/10/2015 18:55

OP, your partner is an adult and can look after himself. Your DS is still (practically a) child. Your DP needs to stay away until he can control himself around your son.

An adult, a parent, should never respond with violence no matter what the provocation

Maryz · 18/10/2015 18:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MerdeAlor · 18/10/2015 18:57

What is stopping you from splitting from your husband? Is your mind shut from the possibility?

Can you describe the dynamic between you and your DH and your other DC and your DH?

I can't see that your DHs actions have existed in isolation. Physically abusive people are usually very controlling in other ways.

Has anyone recommended doing the freedom programme with Womens Aid? You should look it to it because your judgement is so clouded.

MaudGonneMad · 18/10/2015 18:59

Maryz's posts are spot on

Maryz · 18/10/2015 18:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tiggytape · 18/10/2015 18:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OstentatiousBreastfeeder · 18/10/2015 19:00

You don't snatch something or aggressively block a teenager's exit from an argument and then get to play the victim, I'm afraid.

Maryz · 18/10/2015 19:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeaLeander · 18/10/2015 19:05

Sounds like poor DS got the short end of the stick when you decided to get involved with your "D" h and start another family. I feel terribly sorry for him.

As another said, your DH is goading him and then using that as an excuse to bully him. Awful, awful, awful behavior -- how could anyone subject her flesh and blood to that? And DS is the one who has to leave the premises? If it were me, the husband would be the one ousted from the home. Probably permanently.

Your son has been set up for a miserable, conflicted and traumatised adult life because you made your own romantic life and new family a priority instead of making raising him a priority when your relationship with his bio father failed. I do not understand why women do this. You say you don't want judgment but what is going to compel you to rescue your son from this damaging and abusive situation?

No matter how you feel you "need" your DH whether it be emotionally, financially, etc., your needs should not supercede those of your offspring. Even if it makes your life more difficult you need to save your children from living in a violent home.

Fivegomad · 18/10/2015 19:06

seeyounearer
How refreshing to see a thoughtful and studied post on mumsnet....one that has actually read the OP
northernfeminist
What a hurtful and ill informed statement. You do not know the full story, there may be SN or MH issues that result in this anger from the child. Violent and abusive children absolutely do not always come from violent abusive families.
OP
I have nothing to offer you except my support and best wishes for your whole family for the future

CatMilkMan · 18/10/2015 19:08

LeaLeander It is literally impossible for you to know what you seem to think you know, you are full of shit.

NorthenFeminist · 18/10/2015 19:09

FiveGoMad sometimes the truth does hurt, and the op has posted about this before under a different name with information that she hasn't included in this thread.

forumdonkey · 18/10/2015 19:12

OP how is your DS's behaviour when your DH is not there? Is his behaviour still challenging with you?

Mistigri · 18/10/2015 19:14

You're getting a very hard time here perhaps because your posts have given only a very small glimpse of what's really going on, and perhaps understandably people think that you may be minimising your DH's behaviour.

I wonder how many posters have experience of aggressive teenagers? :-/ I'm not suggesting that violence towards a minor is ever justified, but it would be interesting to hear more about the history of the conflict between them. Some teenagers can be aggressive and difficult even with normal parenting - I know ordinary families that have been torn apart by difficult teenagers, including my DH's (his youngest brother had severe behavioural problems from his mid teens) - yet his parents were fairly textbook "good parents".

NanaNina had some good suggestions. It's a horrendously difficult situation for all of you, that requires some sort of active intervention to find a solution (family counselling?), and bearing in mind that there are younger children whose best interests may be different from those of their half brother.

wibblywobbler · 18/10/2015 19:16

What a load of nonsense LeaLeander

OP, unless there is a lot more that you haven't mentioned I am sure it isn't as black and white as some people seem to think it is. I feel for you, I don't think parents are saints and I am sure your DH is at the end of his tether aswell. Teenagers, especially the trying ones, can be horrid. How does your teen feel about the current situation with the coming and going of him and his SF?

WinnieFosterTether · 18/10/2015 19:16

If you left your DH you wouldn't be the one tearing the family apart. Your DH has done that. Stop trying to take responsibility for your DH's behaviour.

Sorry for stating the obvious but this situation has been going on for 2 years so it started when your DS was 14. Your DH was, and is an adult. He has consistently chosen to respond in a way that ultimately led to ss involvement.

My DF was violent when I was growing up. I remember lashing out at him in defence as a teen. My DM consistently sided with him and minimised it. I could see she was frightened of him too but I felt then, and still feel now, that she should have left. She should have protected both us. I couldn't remove myself from the situation because I was a child. I was dependent on her and she let me down.

Not only did it make my teenage years shit but it also meant I didn't have an example of a healthy relationship. Think about what you are teaching all your DCs even the ones who get to stay at home all the time because they haven't managed to anger your DH enough yet Hmm By staying, you are currently sacrificing all of your DCs' childhoods and possibly their adult relationships too to placate your angry DH. I don't see how he can be worth that.

Seeyounearertime · 18/10/2015 19:24

Here's my experience with violent teens. Myself. I was a violent teen.
You tell me how my dad was supposed to handle me, I'll give a basic example of my behaviour, this is a true story:

Listening to Iron Maiden in my room, loud enough for the neighbours to complain. My dad comes up stairs and asks if I could turn it down,
"Piss off silly old fucker"
"The neighbours have complained, you need to turn it down" my dad says as he walks to the stereo nd turns it down. I then proceed to throw a full mig of hot coffee anpt him and launch across my bedroom to attack him. He protects himself and pins me to the ground by my shoulders. I pretend toncalm and he gets up and leaves. I wait 2 minutes and launch at him again, pushing him down the stairs. As he falls, I follow, I head to the front door, he grabs me by my arm and says,
"You can't just run away"
I turn, I punch him square in the jaw, dislocating it and then turn and leave.

My dad wasn't violent or abusive, he was a mild mannered chess player who likes jigsaws and George formby.

Faced with that, what would you have done?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/10/2015 19:24

I wonder how many posters have experience of aggressive teenagers?

I do. And with far less knowledge of the person than within a family, you very quickly learn how to.defuse a situation rather than escalate it.

While the OPs DH may not be doing anything "wrong" he is, from what the OP describes, escalating rather than defusing situations (albeit inadvertently).

OP, can you give your DH some tips on how to.defuse rather than escalate with your son. Of course if he (DH)/is deliberately escalating things he needs.to leave until he (DH) sorts himself out.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/10/2015 19:27

You tell me how my dad was supposed to handle me,

What led to the situation/behaviour you describe - what made you so angry and aggressive in the first place?

NeedsAsockamnesty · 18/10/2015 19:27

The op's DH is NOT the childs stepfather, he is his father.

The op says a legal adoption has happened

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