To dislike the term "full time mum"

[LunchpackOfNotreDame]

Last time I checked all mums were full time mums, you don't clock off when you go to work.

What's wrong with housewife or stay at home mum or unemployed? When did being a parent become an employment status?

If I were looking for the definition of someone of either gender not working or actively seeking work through choice or necessity I'd be looking for the term "economically inactive"

If I told people I was "unemployed" I would be assumed to be actively seeking work, signing on and jumping through Job Centre hoops. I would be treated with pity at best and contempt at worst. People would whisper about whether or not I was trying hard enough to find work or if my benefit claims were fraudulent. People would treat my son with suspicion and other children told not to mix with "people like that". At the very kindest I would be given helpful suggestions about where there are jobs available and how to apply for them.

So I use "Mum" as my job title because it is the only way to shut down the conversation.

In real life I've only heard people said "I don't work". It's not something that comes up often but if it's in response to a conversation about "what do you do?" You can assume that if it's a woman of between about 18 and 65 that's enough to say they're not working because they've got children

And I probably need to point out that I don't actually claim any benefits!

The expression comes because mothers who don't earn need to justify that! Often they can't earn enough to make it worth while or their kids are still very young. Plenty of mothers could have three kids under 6 and they're still asked if they work, don't they want to use their brain, blah blah blah, so I see the phrase / term as having been borne out of that, putting women on trial for not earning. Terrible really.

I work pt btw. Earning enough to make it all work, having a supportive husband, having the right job that you can make work around a family, all of these things are a privilege, so I won't line up to fire more criticism at mothers who sah.

A childminder has to follow the EYFS, be first aid qualified and comply with Ofsted. She also takes payment for the service. That's nothing at all like being a parent. You don't need qualifications , a decent CV or a high IQ to become a pregnant, just need to have sex.

Having no job, parent or not, means a person is not in employment so is unemployed. Those with jobs don't suggest they actually have two jobs as they also have children.

A parent is a parent for life, there's no full time or part time about it. It's not a job.

Absolutely Iwantobeadog

I used to get it all the time. I may have uttered this nonsensical phrase myself but what I meant was, ''I don't earn''.

I had to wait until my children were old enough before that equation of childcare =< income became resolvable. Also, being a single parent, my children needed me more not less. Still I was bombarded with questions about why I wasn't working. I couldn't have afforded childcare for one, never mind two, and there wasn't much work in my area, so I would have had travel costs and then two extra hours travelling time to add to the beginning and end of each day to factor in when paying a child minder!

But people don't think. They really don't. And often, dishearteningly because you'd expect more from them, women who are in the privileged position of having made it work themselves will be the ones who judge which is sad.

I work now, but it's still not easy.

If I am unemployed than where my jsa?

Sooty" "If I were looking for the definition of someone of either gender not working or actively seeking work through choice or necessity I'd be looking for the term "economically inactive"

That's an incredibly harsh view point, given that a family is a more economically successful unit.

And to the OP I would say, don't put women in the position where they have to justify the fact that they're not earning and then you won't hear this phrase.

Dictionary definition of unemployed is "not working but available to work". If a person has committed to looking after their children instead of doing paid employment then that means they are not available to work.

Boldfox has it!

Dont ask, find something else to talk about.

I think saying 'I don't work' probably covers it. Most people realise that means no paid work and assume you fill your time accordingly.

CookieMonsterIsOnADiet - go tell the government that "unemployed" means anyone not in paid work and see what they tell you... It won't look good in their statistics.

When someone asks "what do you do?" they aren't really interested in what you do, they just want to pigeonhole you. I can just imagine someone's face if, when asked, they got a long and detailed response about all the things that person did in their week - all the unpaid volunteer work they did in the local school/hospital/shop and how many hours that took up; the courses they were studying; the gardening they did; the number of times they hovered and dusted; the children's parties they organised; the governing bodies they sat on; the scout groups they helped out with; the exercise they got; the finances they sorted out; the food they cooked; the supermarket shopping they did; the nappy changing they did; the organising of insurance policies; the popping in to check up on elderly parents and neighbours; the painting of the children's bedrooms; the supervising of homework or music practice; the giving of lifts; the meals they cooked; the bedtime stories they read... Thank your lucky stars people don't bore you to tears with the details of their lives and just come up with a short answer that doesn't tell you anything.

I think objecting to the term is precariously close to putting down women who don't go out to work. It says 'I do everything you do as a mother but I also go out to work, so what value do you have eh, you lazy cow'. As some of the miserably nasty posts above demonstrate. I usually say 'I am looking after my small children', but I guess somebody will object to that as well as it suggests women who work don't look after their kids. If somebody is insecure about their status either way, there is literally no description that couldn't be taken as offensive if you tried hard enough!

SheGot - problem with that is that for some women the implication that what they do all day is "nothing" is as offensive as the implication that women who have paid employment do less parenting to others.

And if you have to ask what is offensive about saying 'I'm unemployed' when you spend your days looking after 3 preschoolers, or whatever, you are either being goady or stupid.

What is ridiculous is for people to be obsessed with defining themselves as economic units. "Economically inactive" indeed.

BoldFox I should have said my comment was relevant to work and filling in forms and databases. Unemployed in that context means seeking work. Economically inactive means that for whatever reason you aren't. The menus don't really have any alternative.
In real life conversation I'd just say "I'm not working at the moment" probably.

If someone describes themselves as a 'full time mum' you know exactly what they mean in as few words as possible.

If you choose to take offence to that, the problem is with you.

Mrs Y: "What do you do, Mrs X?"
Mrs X: (simpering) "Oh, absolutely nothing, Mrs Y - I'm economically inactive."

I think I've already covered the distinction between data collection and real life conversation.

Fair point SoupDragon.

Tbh I am not that bothered 'full time mum', it's just inaccurate but it's better than unemployed. If someone said to me they were unemployed, I would think it was someone down the job centre every day etc.

I don't think there will ever be a correct term for being a SAHP / full time parent etc. I quite like career break!

Thing is, though, if you're out at work all day, you're not doing "everything I do as a mother, plus working." You're not there to deal with every tantrum, to clean up every mess, change every nappy, make every meal and persuade the child to eat it, battle to get them to sleep at every naptime, listen to every ramble about whatever's passed through their little heads at that moment....basically you're not doing a lot of the parenting "grunt" work because you're not there for it. And that's fine, the work you are out doing is just as valuable and important to your children for all the reasons previous posters have given.

But it's disingenuous to claim you do everything a " full-time mum", because unless you have the enviable ability to be in two places at once, it's not actually possible.

I would never use "stay at home parent" though. That is a phrase that exists only on Mumsnet.

I'd either get WTF? expressions or out myself as a Mumsnetter!