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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Woman on bus being very unhelpful (maybe sensitive) (thread title amended by MNHQ}

187 replies

DirtyMugPolice · 25/09/2015 19:20

I'm 7 months pregnant and look it - a lady on the bus moved her shopping trolley thing for me so I could sit down. Lovely. She then proceeded to tell me about her grandson who died while being born as he was grabbed in the wrong place with forceps. My eyes welled up and then she got off the bus.

What. The. Fuck. Why would you tell a pregnant woman a story about a dead baby?!

OP posts:
Shutthatdoor · 26/09/2015 09:08

I wasn't offended by your title OP. But on mumsnet someone always gets offended, then other people love drama and join the bandwagon. Sorry you've had this bad experience of mumsnet on speed.

People were offended, me included. The OP and the title were badly worded, which the OP has apologised for and I accept that no offence was meant.

It isn't joining a bandwagon as you put it. It is peoples grief.

kelda · 26/09/2015 09:11

Starkswillriseagain provides a good explanation of why this lady told you her story, but it seems to have been ignored.

Obviously the grief that she is experiencing is very fresh in her mind, and may always be upmost in her mind. Seeing you heavily pregnant triggered her and her story just came out.

It's ridiculous to suggest that her story could have potentially harmed your unborn child.

Babies are born healthy in the most stressful of times - war, refugees. That's not to say that stress during pregnancy does not have any harmful effect, but not a one-of instance of hearing a sad story.The human body and mind are surprisingly resilient.

AloraRyger · 26/09/2015 09:13

I was upset by the title, by the OP, by the language used. Dead baby, talking shit, etc. Such dismissive language is still being used - someone's much loved and wanted baby who died in really tragic circumstances being referred to as a juicy story is just awful.

My dd1 wasn't and isn't a juicy story. I don't often talk about her 10 years on but if I ever heard her referred to in that way I'd lose the plot.

The OP has apologised and hopefully in future will consider her words more carefully. But don't accuse people of joining bandwagons - some of the wording, though unintended, has been really hurtful to bereaved parents.

DorotheaHomeAlone · 26/09/2015 09:18

Kelda stress during labour is actually harmful. It makes things much less likely to progress naturally and makes forceps more likely. The last thing the OP needs to be thinking of during labour is a storey like this. Also, antenatal anxiety is real and harmful to mums and babies. It is selfish to add more worry at a vulnerable time. This woman was very thoughtless.

KitKatCustard · 26/09/2015 09:23

I lost a grandchild. A problem was discovered at the 20 week scan which, despite much intervention, could not be rectified. She was still born 7 weeks later.

Talk now of a 20 week scan being to "find out the sex of the baby" (And yes, you do hear that a lot) upsets me enormously., I want to (but don't) yell "you don't know what might happen". Does it upset me? You bet it does. It upsets my DD and SIL a hell of a lot more.

I'd like to think that a short conversation on a bus won't cause you, OP, this much long term pain.

NoonAim · 26/09/2015 09:24

Those comments stood out for me too, WatchWithMerlot - very well said.

PurpleDaisies · 26/09/2015 09:24

Flowers kitkat

DixieNormas · 26/09/2015 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ScrappyMalloy · 26/09/2015 09:28

Maybe juicy story was a poor choice, but there were brackets around the word for a reason. It was a comment on the story-teller, not the circumstances.

My mother is a bereaved grandmother but does not terrify mothers to be with stories of her loss and certainly would not share details with strangers in such an inappropriate way.

ScrappyMalloy · 26/09/2015 09:33

But I bet my mother in law, who hasn't spoken to us in years, LOVES to tell everyone about her 'loss'. Despite the fact she has no feelings for any of my children. The chance of putting herself in the centre of a drama would be too good to pass up.

HackerFucker22 · 26/09/2015 09:35

Just because someone else's baby died doesn't mean something is going to happen to your baby.

I say the following purposely bluntly to make a point and in no way do I want to detract from the heartbreak of losing a baby In fact if you wanted to be completely callous you could argue that statistically hearing 'first hand' about the deaths of other babies means it's less likely thay something will happen to your baby....

Real life is tough, bad things happen and whilst it might have been hard to hear this wasn't about you OP. It was bad form and I understand why you would have a been a bit like WTAF but I think you need to put it behind you and concentrate on your pregnancy.

Hygge · 26/09/2015 09:36

"people had the choice to read that story, the op didn't have any choice but to listen to that women on the bus"

Not really. They had a choice to open the thread but it wasn't at all clear from the original title that the content was going to be about a baby who died.

The only clue was "maybe sensitive" but given the rest of the thread title, that could have been about anything. The phrase "talking shit" doesn't really make me think that what's going to follow will be a conversation about losing a child.

And the new thread title still could be about anything else. If it had been clearer I think I would have avoided the thread altogether.

OP I hope you are okay. I appreciate that you didn't mean to cause any upset or offence. I'm sure the woman who spoke to you felt the same, she didn't mean to upset or offend you. She perhaps realised too late that you might not have been the best person to speak to at that particular moment.

I think the thing about losing a baby is that you do still want to talk about your child. Your baby is still your baby and in amongst all the grief you do still have the love and pride that any other parent feels about their newborn.

She possibly could have been more thoughtful to you before she spoke, but I don't think the name-calling or judgements about her by people on this thread are necessary. She spoke out of turn, probably through a mixture of grief and love for her grandson. That doesn't make her a bad person.

Northernlurker · 26/09/2015 09:47

I'm not impressed by the talk on this thread that pregnancy is a vulnerable time, pregnant women don't need to hear this sort of thing etc. I think that pregnancy is an emotional time and a time when you become aware of just how much you love your baby and how much your heart is now at risk. None of that means you can't listen and empathise with the stories of strangers. We need to get over ourselves a bit I think. Motherhood is not a licence to only hear about fluffy, nice, positive things.

The fact is that all of us, whether we know it or not, know women who have lost babies in pregnancy. Many of will know women who have lost babies through stillbirth or children through death either as children or as adults. That bereavement is all around us and if we are going to be the best we can be at supporting our friends and loved ones we need to acknowledge it. Sometimes babies die and it's awful but what's far worse is if we conspire with the rest of society to run away from that and let that death be something that must not be spoken of. Of course everyone will make their own judgements about what should be said when but it's not on to criticise a woman for talking about this. You might not do it, you certainly may not want to hear it but you should.

Grazia1984 · 26/09/2015 09:51

Most of us would try not to give only negative stories to pregnant women although we all know pregnancy is a hope of a baby not any kind of certainty.
Pregnancy and birth is not a Hello style supermarket order of the perfect child. We are very lucky in the UK that most pregnancies result in live babies but none of us take that for granted.

Even so we need to be careful what is said to women who are pregnant. There is no point in giving them so many negative stories they end up assuming their baby will die. That is a fairly small chance in the UK.

QueenArnica · 26/09/2015 09:56

Firstly a big hug for all those who've lost their babies, unimaginable pain and heartbreak and I'm sorry for your loss.
In all honesty I do think the old lady was insensitive, deliberately cruel of course not, grieving yes, not thinking who her audience was definitely.
I've just had a major surgery following a cancer diagnosis and thankfully the surgeon has removed it all. Would I want someone to tell me they had been told they were all clear and then 3 months later they were given a year to live? No of course I bloody wouldn't.

CoteDAzur · 26/09/2015 10:01

"all the smug 'you've no idea how much your life is going to change' comments when your having your first."

That's the opposite of smug. It's a "Poor you. You have no idea how your life will be destroyed, only to be rebuilt as a shadow of its former self years later, if at all."

FakeTwat · 26/09/2015 10:04

Regardless of the original aggressive and insensitive title, surely the experience of losing her grandchild trumps your precious, pregnant sensibilities?

Dorothea, you are barking mad and very silly.

ScrappyMalloy · 26/09/2015 10:08

Thanks QueenArnica

I hate the assumption that my little boy dying means I have lost my mind or my common sense or that I would scare pregnant women with my experience.

AndDeepBreath · 26/09/2015 10:08

"Pregnancy is a hope of a baby, not any kind of certainty" ... I really like the way you put that Grazia. That says how I feel after so many losses.

I couldn't stop crying after finding out a friend at work was pregnant last week - but only once I was alone in the loos. And luckily I have a very kind understanding boss who didn't question me turning back up red-eyes.

When my friend actually told me, I cheered, hugged her, chatted for quite a while about how lovely and what were the plans and so on. I hope I've been super cheery. But sometimes it's harder than others to keep it all inside and if that's what happened to this lady, then yes ... A deep breath and sympathy would be a kinder reaction then anger - but that's much easier written coolly from a distance I guess.

And YY to the occasional dramatic relative who uses it as a (wince at not the right phrase but I get what you mean) "juicy story", awful stuff.

ovenchips · 26/09/2015 10:11

Goodness OP. Can you not see the deep irony now that you have upset people on this thread by your subject matter and use of language, even though you say you didn't mean to at all?

The woman on bus can't edit her words or get thread deleted after the fact though can she?

And Lehgoul I get what you're saying, I really do.

MarshaBrady · 26/09/2015 10:11

Overall we'd be a kinder society if bereaved parents could talk and not feel they must be silent, it's so isolating. It starts with individuals not turning away or worse calling people like the woman names such as idiot, crazy etc.

ShowOfHands · 26/09/2015 10:13

I do think most people are inherently good and have good intentions. I especially think when you have been bereaved, there is a real need to talk about it and there is often a real desperation to try and prevent other people from experiencing this same unbearable situation. If you were the family whose baby who had died because of forceps, you might feel a need to make sure other pregnant women know absolutely that this can happen. I know why too because generally, a discussion around interventions such as forceps revolves around reassuring a woman that they will be fine and not to worry. It's such a terribly fine balance. I think while the lady on the bus really hadn't picked an appropriate audience, I couldn't judge her for it.

I do think there is a real need to address how we educate about childbirth in this country and how we approach neonatal mortality too.

I am a bit of a broken record on this but I have noticed more and more that "I don't want to hear horror stories about peoples births" means "I don't want to hear about anything other than textbook deliveries". I was chatting to a friend's wife recently (pregnant) and she asked about when I gave birth and I said "oh I had two caesareans". She shut me down immediately with "oh God no, I hate those horror stories, don't tell me". Now this is a real problem. Partly because I take great offence at two of the most important days of my life being referred to as 'horror stories'. I didn't give birth to Freddy Krueger ffs (though you could be forgiven for making that mistake some days when you see what ds is capable of). It's a simple fact. I had two emcs. If you want to know, they were brilliant. The second was the most life-affirming and positive experience I've ever had. A caesarean, forceps, ventouse (had both of those too btw), induction etc, are all exceedingly common and are very useful interventions, sometimes lifesaving. However, we've reached a strange juncture where they're immediately dismissed as 'horror stories'. I have a friend last year who was pregnant and said 'tell me nothing of cs, I won't be having one'. Her baby was delivered by cs and she ended up traumatised. NOT because the cs was traumatic but because she had absolutely built it up to be a failure or a worst case scenario and she admits readily that she could so easily have avoided feeling so much of a failure by engaging with reality instead of fantasy (her words btw).

Of course pregnant women shouldn't be regaled with terrible tales of exaggeration and unnecessary, inaccurate detail designed to excite all sorts of negative emotions (that's what soap operas are for apparently), of course natural delivery and listening to our bodies and trust them should be encouraged, but we do have an increasing problem. I see it with the women I support post natally who have had non-textbook deliveries. So many times I hear them say "I wish I'd known, I wish I'd been more open to what could happen". Rarely are the deliveries themselves traumatic. They were preconceived as 'horror stories' though.

I think there must be a balance in there somewhere.

I know I'm wittering again. I do that a lot but I do wonder if there isn't some need to challenge the narrative around childbirth in general.

hackmum · 26/09/2015 10:42

I do think there is a balance somewhere. When my DD was a few weeks old I told a nine-month pregnant woman, who I'd just met at a bumps 'n' babies event, the full story of my difficult labour. I've really no idea why I thought this was appropriate. She actually went into labour the same day. Later we became good friends and she told me that the first time she met me she'd thought I was mad! Maybe I was a bit.

One of the oddest things when I was pregnant was a friend giving me as a birthday present a novel about a woman who dies in childbirth. I can't imagine why she thought it was a good idea. She probably in some way thought I'd find it funny but I didn't. (I did enjoy the novel, though.)

DorotheaHomeAlone · 26/09/2015 10:42

faketwat I am actually neither. I had a traumatic birth last year where I failed to progress due to overwhelming grief about the unexpected death of a loved one. I choose carefully when and where to share both these stories because my grief and pain do not trump other people's feelings.

This thread is really unnecessarily aggressive. I hope the OP has hidden it and moved on.

parrotsummer · 26/09/2015 10:44

It isn't aggressive at all. The most aggressive comments have been aimed at those who have experienced loss.

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