Homework: AIBU to think a 5 year old should not be punished for not doing it?

[TheOriginalMerylStrop]

I have 3 primary aged kids.

I do not agree with young children doing homework for a plethora of reasons, not least that they are at school enough and there is a need for other sorts of learning (like play!) out of school time. My kids all work really hard at school, doing well, and the eldest is Head Boy (massive not stealth boast).

The school is generally understanding of my position and most of the teachers say things like "we only set it because so many parents ask for it" . If they decide they want to do a piece of the homework we find the time and space to support them to do it. If not, we don't do it. So far, no problem.

My youngest in Y1 has been set some moderately uninteresting tasks that range from the meaninglessly easy to the unrealistic without significant parental input. He has no interest in doing it. We went away camping last weekend and had no time in any case.

But last night he was in tears because he had been told he would get a "red card" (and therefore lose his playtime) if he did not bring in this work. I asked him again this morning and he very clearly recounted what was said. I am asking other parents to see if they can confirm or not.

I have kept him off today as he is very pale and tired and has a temperature, but AIBU to think this is totally out of order on the teacher's part? And what should I do about it?

I just don't believe that all these children are getting in from school and doing fun and educational activities with their parents until bedtime.

Well, DD has ballet class (soooo MC, darling) twice a week. Good for intellectual as well as physical development. It takes concentration as they learn new steps and sequences, they don't just skip around being fairies.

Brownies once a week - at the moment they're learning about the weather and last week they made a rain gauge and are measuring rainfall every day (I help her with that, she's doing a graph).

She loves reading, and reads to me every day and has a bedtime story. In fact, she has reached the point where she can work out a lot of words on advertising signs, the names of shops and road signs etc and loves doing that when we're out and about.

She likes to cook, and can make simple dishes such as spag bol herself with some verbal reminders from me (as she showed when I had a bad back and could only lie on the floor). She generally helps cook, which involves measuring and learning about food.

Generally she plays outside with the neighbours' children for an hour or so in the evening. Last night they were building some sort of structure out of bits of wood and stone that were lying around, which of course is learning about density and how things balance etc as well as good for social development.

I put her pocket money into her bank account once a month - not because it's a huge amount, but because I could never remember if I'd given her that week's and never had the right change. But that means she gets to practice managing money, and working out how much she'll have left if she buys XYZ.

That seems to be a fairly fun but educational set of activities for an 8 year old. As she gets older the learning will become more formal and academic of course.

She rarely watches TV as on the whole she finds it boring.

At that age, YANBU at all. There's no evidence that children who are not forced to do homework at 5 will be less inclined to do it later.

Can anyone tell me what the objective is of giving children a spelling list consisting of *words they cannot yet read?

I have to say I'm having a wry chuckle at all the posters insisting that homework is absolutely necessary for children to learn or whatever - and yet completely mis-reading or not bothering to read the OP's posts!! Bit ironic that. Perhaps you all need to set yourself a bit of reading and comprehension homework...

I think YANBatallU. I also have 3 kids and one in year 1. Our school is not particularly progressive and is very strict and traditional. Lots of emphasis on making the junior school kids take responsibility for things like P.E kit etc. However, even they don't set homework in year 1, thank God. They sort of phase it in up to Year 6 where it is taken seriously with consequences for not doing it - a year's worth of preparation for Secondary School seems more than adequate to me. We never had homework in our day and I managed it very well when I went up to comp.

It depresses me also that people STILL can't see the educational value in young children playing. When my 5 year old comes home she quite often settles down to draw, write, create stuff with sellotape and scissors. She plays with the kids I childmind which often involves more writing as they put together menus for a cafe or counting money as they set up a shop. She settles down with a story I've got her from the library. She actually doesn't watch much TV and doesn't own any gaming devices (yet). The very idea I would drag her away from that stuff to do a sodding worksheet is ludicrous. As this kind of educational play phases out and they want to blob in front of a screen then the homework phases in. Which seems very sensible to me.

I just don't believe that all these children are getting in from school and doing fun and educational activities with their parents until bedtime.

Well, I would hope not. What about being physically active, being imaginative and creative in an unstructured way, chilling out, farting about with your siblings?

They are children as well as being productive little Gove units.

Sigma totally agree

Just because children have to do.something at 11...why on earth do they need to start doing it years earlier when it is not age appropriate?

By the time children are home from.school there is about an hour and a half of playtime before tea. It is obvious that play is vital.for children to relax and be happy ...it is also a key way that they develop intelligence and actually learn things!

5 year old should be relaxing and playing not writing out spellings

Wr already push British children further earlier than any other European country. Most 5 year old across Europe are not doing any formal sit down learning at all. And they are all happier and do better later in life.

I think homework requirements at that age are totally unrealistic in many cases. Ds has only just started reception so we'll see but from what I understand the school puts the focus on reading and asks children and parents to read two books per week. This is doable and realistic (as well as important) and can be fitted in at bedtime. Many children's parents work full time and it is not fair to expect childminders to supervise homework - they are childminders not teachers (though I know ours would be more than happy to). It seems that schools are still massively geared towards parents who stay at home which just doesn't reflect reality. When I come home from work I want to spend enjoyable quality time with my child before bedtime, not stress him and me out by making him do something he's too tired to focus on, having had a full enough day already.

Our school has a policy of setting bigger homework projects that can be worked into family activities at the weekend or in holidays - things like collecting conkers etc on autumn walks etc.

I asked our year 3 teacher how long my DS1s homework should take, she said 20-30 minutes. So I get him to sit down on Friday (when he receives it) for 20-30 minutes. When the times up I write at the bottom of his page 'time up' and then we forget about it. He is around average at school, but isn't remotely academic and hates all types of school work. I can see him going into a trade when he is older, he loves making things.

DD1 (year 2) on the other hand asks for extra homework from her teachers and is constantly making up little projects for herself to do at home, she enjoys it massively. She already has a written out career plan!

Just another example of me having been a considerably better parent before I actually had any children.......

I USED to be very pious about this. I worked hard at school and have a good degree and a professional career and I USED to believe that I would make sure my children diligently did all their homework and took school seriously.

But now my DD is in her second week of Y1 and my resolve has not just weakened, it has completely cracked apart and revealed an anarchic crypto-revolutionary! DOWN WITH HOMEWORK!!!!

My DD is not enjoying reading thanks to the boring books they send home and she feels that she HAS to read. Her writing is coming on perfectly well but the writing practice they send home isn't really helping it.

It's been a massive personal crisis for me because I've had to reject all my long-held beliefs about the merits of homework and confront the fact that - for a five year old - it's just a waste of time and actually harming her learning.

Thinking back, I know I didn't do any homework apart from reading until I was 8. Uniform was a lot more relaxed as well. So - incredibly for someone who's always been a total girly swot - I've decided that I'm not going to insist. We will do it as long as it's enjoyable and actually helping her. And otherwise we'll do something better with our time.

Our school have said that homework isn't compulsory at KS1 so I'm not worried that she'll get into 'trouble'. And I would far rather she was happy and engaged with her learning than stressed out and tired about needing to finish homework.

So YANBU OP.

Regardless of how I or anyone feels about giving 5 year olds homework, your school Policy says it's optional, so YANBU to be cross about the punishment for something that's optional!

As a teacher I would generally say that it is not a good idea to back up your child for not doing their homework. It's a fact of life in our schools. It has always been part of the education system and there are no indications that it is going away either. Also by making excuses for your child, sets a bad example and when it comes to secondary, as someone else said, bite you in the arse!

However ....

The child is 5. Homework should really be set to reinforce previous learning, a chance to practise new skills and to inform parents of what has been learnt. It should be short, manageable and enjoyable - 10 minute daily reading activity, 10 minutes to learn some of the words on the spelling list on a daily basis, quick fire facts to learn when eating meals, preparing meals, having a bath etc - that is it!

Also for a 'one off' I would generally let it slide. If a child, even at 5, was repeatedly not doing homework and I had evidence that not doing it was seriosuly hampering their attainment/achievement in school then it would be the PARENT I would speak to NOT punish the child. A child cannot be made to be responsible for doing school work at home at the age of 5; 9 upwards, yes, but not 5. But even so, a child would NEVER be punished for not doing homework.

But in my school, SLT make it clear to parents that if homework is not completed on a regular basis, it may have a detrimental impact on their ability to achieve targets. Most parents do make their children do it but even the studious and eager ones slip now and again - it isn't the end of the world and 'one offs' now and again isn't going to affect their future life chances!

So in summary, the teacher is being over-zealous. Probably brought on by the stresses and ridiculous targets set, not by government and OFSTED, but by 'our' own SLTs.

Send a note into school and apologise for the work not being set )and give the reason) but also say you are not happy with your child being punished for, what is in effect, an adult's decision for the homework not being complete and end by saying that if they want to install a life long love of learning and to enjoy school, punishing a 5 year old for not doing one piece of homework will not achieve that.

On another matter, keeping your child off school for being tired and pale is definitely NOT setting a good example. Days off should be kept for days when they are genuinely ill.

I have no desire for any school to set ME homework.

For the DC - go for it. They will do what they can within a reasonable time period. Any homework set with the expectation that the parent will do it isn't going to get done by me.

Neither dsis or I did any homework at primary school (though I did want to have some). We both went on to do well at secondary school - I got 6 As and 3Bs at O level, and B,C, D at A level. I can't remember dsis's grades, but she read Music at Oxford. I did my nurse training and a post basic qualification in Theatre nursing and then went to university and got a 2:1 in Politics and Music.

I don't think either of us suffered at all, educationally, from doing no homework.

That said, when the dses' schools gave homework, I did support the school's policy, and made sure it got done. I would not have been at all happy with the school's punishing them for not doing it, though - it would make more sense to reward doing the homework - a star, a sticker etc - make it a positive thing.

Maybe as they get older, the sticker and stars would stop being suitable, but I still wouldn't be punishing non-completion of homework - though I might be pointing out to them that senior schools probably would give detentions or whatever.

I'm a teacher. I set homework. However, other than regular reading, I couldn't give a rat's ass if they completed it or not. I certainly wouldn't punish a child for not doing it...especially not a 5 year old who needs parental help to complete it, thus taking it out of his hands anyway.

Go and speak to the teacher. You don't send your children to school to be humiliated by a 'red card'. (That is so old fashioned by the way)

*Do you not like relaxing a bit when you get in from work?8

Of course I do, but the reality, like most parents/adults is that we have to prepare a meal, sort out washing, cleaning, household admin, committee meetings etc etc - no adult I know unless they are spoiled rotton comes in from work and just 'relaxes' all evening.

So my point is that I just find it hard to understand why so many parents are so anti their children doing 20 minutes or so of homework - it's not a massive amount and perhaps it teaches children that life is just not all 'fun and games'. A bit of homework, along with a few household chores, isn't going to kill anyone. .

I can't think of a more efficient way of turning kids of learning altogether than punishing a 5 yo for not doing homework.

Does this teacher even know that punishment is the least effective way of motivating people?

Do they know that learning occurs best when it is motivated by the child's interest?

If they do then why would they red card?

If they don't then why is anyone paying them to teach?

Our friends across London go to a "no homework" school.

So their DD, same age as mine gets "no homework" - well apart from the mental maths, the spelling and the daily reading that is. Which is pretty much what DD gets, but she might have a couple of worksheets thrown in.

YADNBU. Punishment for not doing homework for a five year old?! . Threads like this make me feel very glad that we don't live in the UK.

i ask my children if they want to do their homework, if they say no I dont make them

make an appointment with the teacher and tell her your children will not be handing in homework

is this for real?! What kind of entitled adults these children will become! I find it hard to believe that people actually think like that!

I don't think 5 year olds need homework but I also don't think you're setting the ideal example to your child by simply letting him do whatever he wants with your encouragement. But, that said, surely the little bit of homework he does get is surely a time to share something that is connected with school and could be seen as a postive.

There is no evidence to suggest that homework in primary improves results at GCSE level. Other than reading/ spellings it is unnecessary and stops children learning through play.

My 3 year old is going to need to be able to dress herself after PE and wipe her own backside when she starts school next year. So I decided the baby should do it too, save her becoming entitled and refusing to ever clean her own bumhole. Which will definitely happen if she isn't forced to do it right now. She failed, so I'm going to punish her.

Why is everyone still bleating on about whether homework is beneficial or not

The OP asked if her ds should be punished for not doing it.

IMO if the school policy states that homework is compulsory then as a parent of a child at the school you should be encouraging your child to follow the rules... not break them. If homework is optional then you need to at least let the CT know why your ds didn't do it.

We all have a choice to home school if we don't want to follow the school rules.

minnie you seem surprised that some parents will critically think about what is best for their child's long term education and then act on it.

I had been wondering what all the time in school before the age of 7 is spent on (seeing as countries with higher literacy and numeracy rates than us start school after 7) and now I see it is about learning to act like sheep. Do what your told when you are told and don't ask questions or think about it....

I don't think you should encourage your children to follow rules unless those rules are sound.

Following arbitrary ill thought out rules like robots isn't really what enables human civilisation to move forward...