Homework: AIBU to think a 5 year old should not be punished for not doing it?

[TheOriginalMerylStrop]

I have 3 primary aged kids.

I do not agree with young children doing homework for a plethora of reasons, not least that they are at school enough and there is a need for other sorts of learning (like play!) out of school time. My kids all work really hard at school, doing well, and the eldest is Head Boy (massive not stealth boast).

The school is generally understanding of my position and most of the teachers say things like "we only set it because so many parents ask for it" . If they decide they want to do a piece of the homework we find the time and space to support them to do it. If not, we don't do it. So far, no problem.

My youngest in Y1 has been set some moderately uninteresting tasks that range from the meaninglessly easy to the unrealistic without significant parental input. He has no interest in doing it. We went away camping last weekend and had no time in any case.

But last night he was in tears because he had been told he would get a "red card" (and therefore lose his playtime) if he did not bring in this work. I asked him again this morning and he very clearly recounted what was said. I am asking other parents to see if they can confirm or not.

I have kept him off today as he is very pale and tired and has a temperature, but AIBU to think this is totally out of order on the teacher's part? And what should I do about it?

it's interesting that many kids seem too busy to do 15 to 30mn homework, but have time to watch tv.

The article below is good. Essentially at primary age, particularly, there is no evidence that homework produces results but we have it in place and it's getting more common because of it's cultural embeddedness and because the way education in this country is going. Having a homework policy is a way for a school to show that it is rigorous. So nothing to do with the child and their own development and much more to do with what we have always done and what we should be seen to be doing.

www.tes.com/article.aspx?storycode=6319948

OP, I'm with you on this one. That teacher is being bloody ridiculous for punishing a five year old.

I'm another parent that has 2 degrees and I hate homework with a passion. I think it's completely pointless for the majority of young children.

I'm in Ireland and my DS (6) has homework every single fucking night from when he started in junior infants (Reception). It's a nuisance when he wants to attend an afternoon/evening activity and we still have to find time to get the homework done.

What's massively frustrating for me is that the homework is mostly colouring in pictures (he has no interest in that) and he has to read and copy very simply 3-4 letter word lists at the moment. It can take between 5-30 minutes.

His actual reading ability is around 11yrs and currently working his way through David Walliams kids books (Gangsta Granny this week).
He's in a rural school in a classroom that has children aged from 4-7yrs but the work they do during the day clearly isnt according to the ability of each child. If they were at least sat on desks grouped by ability, it would surely make more sense?

Grrrr!

I don't understand what has happened - sorry haven't read the whole thread so not sure if you have covered this.

In this instance I would not be discussing it with either my child or other parents. I would have been straight in to see the teacher, explained the situation, asked for a reprieve on the punishment (and if necessary a meeting to discuss the situation in more depth at a later date), and gone on my merry way. I would not have assumed that other parents would know what punishment was being suggested for my child, nor kept him off for something I didn't fully understand. If he is really ill then keep him off but that seems like it's totally irrelevant to the homework situation.

Personally we just do what's required to a greater or lesser extent depending on time available. Both of my school-aged children (and my 3rd when her time comes) do what they can but we never flog a dead horse or insist on homework over social/extra-curricular/family activities. We always seem to get enough done but both of my DC are pretty bright and most of the homework isn't a challenge - just lucky I guess. If they were struggling I would put more effort in as I recognise that in a state system 1 teacher can't fully educate 30 children to their full potential with no input from home.

HTH

Thunderbird, I think we are on the same page. Of course he would take in photos for a project for example.

The homework was
A maths worksheet
An english worksheet - quite nice writing and drawing exercise on things he likes and doesn't like - which he might enjoy doign
Spellings of 30 words, half of which he can't read yet. To be copied out 6 times each
I appreciate that its early days and teachers take time to get the right level for tasks, and it's not even that I am particularly critical of the content of it, though it is definitely in "doing it for the sake of it" territory.

I just do not believe there is any need for it at 5 (or even 10), and less still for a child to be given a punishment for not doing it.

I don't know why people have such an issue with a little bit of independent work to be completed outside of school.

re 6.5 hours of learning, if you take a look at the breakdown of how their days in KS1 are structured you will be surprised at how little full on learning there is.

In fact I was very surprised at how little actual learning time there was.

mrs plum - thanks, seems like a reasonable way to proceed. FWIW not discussing it with other parents other than finding out if their child reported the same; not said anything to ds other than to comfort him; and certainly haven't kept him off because of it - only mentioned that as the reason I haven't been to see the teacher this morning.

it's interesting that many kids seem too busy to do 15 to 30m homework, but have time to watch tv

^^ Couldn't agree more, it's only on Mumsnet that I see this complete & utter angst about homework - my DS has never been given more than 20 minutes an evening which he does in five and he is now 14 and incredibly lazy. I am one of those parents always asking for more homework ..

I just don't believe that all these children are getting in from school and doing fun and educational activities with their parents until bedtime. .

And yes, I frequently take work home, work outside my paid hours (despite being on NMW) because I take pride in what I do.

*re 6.5 hours of learning, if you take a look at the breakdown of how their days in KS1 are structured you will be surprised at how little full on learning there is.

In fact I was very surprised at how little actual learning time there was.*

Do you think learning only happens during formal lessons?

There is no research evidence that giving homework to KS1 children results in raised academic attainment in the medium to long term. In other words, it's a complete waste of time. (With the possible exception of sending reading books home for parents and children to share, and doing optional enrichment projects if they fancy doing something enjoyable in the holidays).

OP I'm with you, I don't agree with children that young getting homework. They're in school long enough at such a young age. Unfortunately I have to suck it up and help my DS with his. I get through it by telling myself that it's teaching him good habits, responsibilities and consequences.

The red card shaming thing is awful. At my DS's school there are 'clouds' on the wall - your name is on the rainbow cloud, and goes on the 'rainy cloud' if you're bad which is again a form of public shaming. It teaches children to be competitive and work hard, but breaks their heart when they're embarrassed in front of their whole class. They are far too young for all this stress. My DS is a total worrier and panics at the thought of going on the rainy cloud.

Anyway I'm going off at a tangent here, but I agree with what you're saying.

30 spellings and two worksheets - all given on the same day to a 5 year old?

I think you might want to reassess your opinion of the school, strop - that's a ridiculous amount.

Actually I think the children whose parents sit down with them a lot doing homework do worse. I must look up research on that.

This 'if they don't start at 5 they'll never do it' is rather strange...

There are plenty of things that children don't do at 5 because they're too young, then as they get older they develop the skills.

If you don't start driving lessons at 5, how on earth can you pass your driving test at 17?

I'm not putting my baby in nappies, as I'll never be able to get them to use the toilet later. If they won't comply then they must just take the punishment.

We need to lock up that 3 year old as he just hit someone. If he can't manage his temper then he must just take the punishment. If he gets away with it now he'll never learn to restrain himself...

IMO whether you agree or not with the schools policy on homework is irrelevant... The homework has been set so your dc needs to do it and at his age it is your responsibility to ensure he does.

IME at that age homework takes 15 mins tops, are you really saying you didn't have 15 mins to spare all weekend?

Homework becomes a big part of school life the older they get and for my two getting into a routine of doing in young was very beneficial to them both. They just get on with it now and get it out of the way.

I don't understand why you would want to teach a child that it's fine to break the rules.

Ragwort - if you read the TES article you'll see that it's very far from only being on mumsnet that people question the usefulness of homework.

DD (almost 5) had a reading book or 2 a week and a maths exercise every fortnight throughout last year's nursery year. It's the same now in her reception year. DD is bright and likes the tasks. Only once did she really not want to do the number bonds task (something about the way it was presented just turned her off) so we found another way to practice and understand the essence of the task. We ran out of time to read one book, and her teacher's response was very much "this is just to support their school learning; it's not compulsorily and we don't mind if they don't do it." I think this is the right approach with young children. We don't make a big deal about it, they recognise that children are learning constantly through pretty much everything they do.

SAC - They a few days to do it in. Though no dates to have it in by on the books or anything. The older two were never given that much though they didn't do it anyway I think it's the new curriculum having a crazy impact, perhaps, in combo with a weaker teacher (rumour has it, though I tend to wait and form my own opinion), and a head who is seeming quite driven at the moment and wanting to keep hold of her "outstanding" Ofsted under the new regime.

Mumsnet is a strange place. We had a thread very similar to this yesterday about children being punished if they did not read at home. It might well still be active, but it went completely the opposite way to this thread. I
I don't thing ybu. I don't think any child should be penalised for their parents "sins". He is 5 not 15. It's ridiculous for teachers who are supposed to know the ins and outs of children to expect them to be able to handle such responsibility. It's up to you as his mum to check if he has any home work. Not for him to tell you.
Hope he's better soon

"The homework was
A maths worksheet
An english worksheet - quite nice writing and drawing exercise on things he likes and doesn't like - which he might enjoy doing
Spellings of 30 words, half of which he can't read yet. To be copied out 6 times each"

For a five year old?! That's heaps!
DS1, as mentioned, is in year 2 and is 7 (they start later here) and his spelling words, that he has a week to do, is a list of 20 words, that are copied out 4 times, one per night. All of them are words he can read (although he doesn't know what they all mean).

I see NO point in trying to make a child spell something they can't read!

"I just don't believe that all these children are getting in from school and doing fun and educational activities with their parents until bedtime. "

Do you not like relaxing a bit when you get in from work?

When my DS comes home from school, he'll have played outside for a bit before we walk home, then we'll sit at the table for a snack and all chatted a bit, then we'll do his reading, then I might send them all out into the garden for a bit or to play by themselves (independent play being very important), then he might help me cook dinner or set the table, then while I am feeding the baby they might watch CBeebies for a few minutes, then he might go up to his room to play Lego, then we'll sit at the dinner table together to eat dinner, then it is bathtime/bedtime etc.

What he doesn't need to do is be forced to sit at a table and do homework after a whole day of sitting at a table at school.

I am amazed though at how agitated some people are getting at a choice that some parents are making that has absolutely NO bearing on them or their own children, or indeed, given all the research, on our own children.

That's an excessive amount of homework.

how anyone can agree with doing all that with kids aged 4 and 5 is ridiculous. perhaps they all have geniuses who can do it all in twelve seconds flat. most if us get home with tired kids who are hungry and fidgety and just want to play ir watch a bit of tv.i can't believe people prefer them to sit and do this crap for a house point or two.

Homework is optional and interesting at my dcs' school. We encourage ours to do it, mostly they do. Some weeks they don't - at my, or their own, instigation. Only now when ds1 is in Y5 do we insist.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all.