To not have my DS's girlfriend to stay

[AnotherNameTrala]

I have name changed for this thread, because this might be identifying. It's an issue which is weighing on me currently, and I haven't discussed it properly in real life yet. AIBU may be the wrong place, sorry. Trying to keep it brief:

My DS is now 21 (at University a few hours away), and his girlfriend of several years the same age. Roughly 3 years ago, he asked if he could bring the girlfriend to stay - I agreed. This was, well it was a disaster. Over the course of the week she stayed she drank all of the alcohol in my son's room and stole drink which I had in the house. She was sick all over the place, she was screaming, crying, in some awful states, she missed her flight home... I was so incredibly angry at her, and at my son for inflicting her on me. Vowed I'd never have her in my house again. She phoned after she finally reached her home to apologise, and tell me that she had a severe alcohol problem. (I had realised...) According to my DS, she is now 2 and a half years sober, and attends AA meetings regularly. He wants to bring her to stay at Christmas. And I just...I can't. She caused utter havoc, drove a wedge between me and my son. AIBU to say no, despite what I hear of her 'recovery'?

Yes, I think I would be able to forgive (based on something which happened in my family) ... but who knows, it's hard to tell until it happens to you. However what's the worse that could really happen? Most likely she'd be terribly embarrassed, polite and extra courteous. And you could have planned coping mechanisms if she did revert to previous behaviours, (lock away valuable wine, have a neighbour/police number stored etc?) and you'd then be in a real position to talk to your son about it. On that note, don't you want to know the real woman who your son's in love with? The real woman behind that creepy religious background which can screw people up teenager you met could have your grandkids and could be in your life for decades to come? This could potentially heal something that's been broken for you for a while and maybe that's why your son's pushing it.

I would be more concerned about a child who was obviously in a very bad place than my whiskey stash. Frankly after holding a grudge for so long I think you are the one who should apologise. You do seem nice though but maybe a little old fashioned and rigid. She has done really well to pull herself together...Its Christmas ....what would Jesus do ;)

In answer to your question I wouldn't find it at all easy to 'get past this'. And I don't think anyone else on this thread has suggested they would either.

If this had happened last Xmas and the girlfriend was still drinking then you'd have a completely different thread. People would be fairly unanimously agreeing with you not to let her over your threshold.

But what makes it worth trying to see if you can get past this, is what has happened between that horrific week 3 years ago and now. The girlfriend has entered AA, has been sober for over 2 years and seems to be making steps to make amends. That is a huge and enormous difference.

And one I don't think you seem able to acknowledge tbh because you are very much 'stuck' in that week 3 years ago.

OP if she was your daughter, had gone through a clearly wrong path in her life, started over, and then, what would you want her potential future mum-in-law to treat her like? Your answer may lie there.

OP does she have any qualities you admire?

You ask if we would find it easy to forgive in your position, and I have to say my answer would be entirely dependent on how she behaved the next time I saw her. I consider it unreasonable to fail to see her again and give her the chance to show that she has changed - because you saw her at a very low point in her life, and possibly one that contributed to her taking the big step to clean her act up.

I can't imagine that she is comfortable at all about what happened at your house. I can't imagine that she is actually looking forward to seeing you again either, tbh - I know in her place I'd be utterly mortified, but also hopeful that you would see I'm a different person now.

You can not forgive her until you see her again - but to forgive her, to see her again, you HAVE to be willing to give her a second chance. If you see her with all that old anger still in place, then you won't be giving her a proper chance, IMO.

Another thing to think about - she was 18 when she was already an alcoholic, 18 (possibly 19) when she decided to join AA - I have to wonder what drove her to be an alcoholic so early in life, and my suspicions would be that it wouldn't be good. Of course she might just have been rebelling against her strict upbringing - that's just as possible - but you don't know.

If you're buying Marian Keyes books, then I suggest you also pick up "This Charming Man" - there are chapters in there about the main character's sister, who is an alcoholic, and how that affects her behaviour, her life, and why she got that way. It's only one reason, but it's a common enough one, sadly. :(

You mentioned being overseas for christmas with relatives one year. Any chance of doing this again, thus making the christmas visit not an option, and pushing to meet her somewhere else/some other time? (not with you at relatives, to be clear), but New years near DS or pre-christmas somewhere in middle of where you all are??

I think Christmas at your place at that emotional/busy/fraught time of year is asking for trouble. I would worry the stress/isolation/emotion to the girlfriend might challenge her sobriety (let alone your own!).

A dinner near his university, meeting at a third venue for a weekend would be a better opportunity to restart the relationship with her. You should be forgiving, but also protective of your home and own comfort/sensibilties.

Alos, don't meet her expecting another apology, just lock that away as the past an start afresh.

I haven't read the whole thread but I've read the first few posts from the OP.

Three years ago, so she was only 18, 19 at most? Come on, have a heart. Loads of teenagers do very, very stupid things (in drink and indeed totally sober) that probably make them feel thoroughly ashamed and embarrassed in later life. Plenty of people carry it on for years and never pull themselves together.

She apologized on the phone, she apologized in a letter, she was clearly mortified enough to stop drinking completely (or at least to excess) and to acknowledge that she had a serious problem, which is pretty hard to do at that age when so much of your social life revolves around the expectation to drink with friends.

She clearly loves your son and he loves her. You don't have to give this girl a second chance, but I really think you should, if only because if made to choose between who he spends his Christmases with from now on, he is quite likely to choose her. Especially if he feels that she has made a huge effort to reform and yet you continue to be overly judgemental and contemptuous of her. He may start to feel extremely protective of her and bitter towards you. She may not be perfect, you may find that you don't particularly like her even when she's sober and on her best behaviour, but that's not really the point here. Your son loves her and if you want a decent relationship with your son you need to come to terms with that.

I think you have to be prepared to take a leap and trust your sons judgement on this now. I really, really doubt he would be wanting to bring her into your home at such an important time as Christmas if he didn't trust her not to screw up again, especially knowing how strongly you feel about it and what the fallout will be like if she puts a foot wrong.

He may stay with girl for life. You need to think about the long term consequences for you on how you choose to move forward with this.

Well, I can't speak for your situation.

But when DH came and spent the night at my parents the first time, him and DM had a huge blow out and it ruined the whole holiday.

When we left, they both had ill feelings towards each other.

But they both gave each other a second chance, and while it wasn't immediate, they slowly worked it out and now DH is like a son to them.

I will say though, that if you make your son pick between you and his girlfriend, you will lose. No healthy child will pick a parent over their partner. You might want to suck it up for a bit and give it an honest go. Try your best to see some good points about her so that you don't alienate your son again. What I'm saying is don't go in sword already drawn and on the defensive.

A relationship is a two way street, you both need to work on it.

That said, there's no reason you can't make ground rules.

Such as:

• NO drinks.
• Respect you and your house.
• You will kick them out if either rules are broken.

I don't believe any addiction is an illness. It's a choice, no one is forcing them to go out and sustain their addiction. They can seek out the substance or seek out treatment. Your DS's GF chose to get help, and that's something that really shouldn't be taken lightly. It's a hard choice to make when the alternative makes you feel good.

Would I find it easy? Probably not, I would be nervous about the first meeting. However I would try my best to go to the meeting with an open mind. For the sake of the relationship with my child.

I find lots of things difficult, things I wouldn't do if it wasn't for my child.

I think the problem is, is that you keep reliving the horror that was the last visit. You really need to accept it happened and make plan to at least try and move past it.

Are you a dweller in general? Do you dwell on negative stuff quite a lot?

It's a choice, no one is forcing them to go out and sustain their addiction. They can seek out the substance or seek out treatment. Your DS's GF chose to get help, and that's something that really shouldn't be taken lightly.

Whilst this an excellent point, she did seek help. I would like to say help can be very hard to get hold of. My grandad has been an alcholic for his entire life. We are I ly getting help now that he has been sectioned. He has diabetes and May to have his leg removed, a doctor at the hospital last time we were there suggested letting him drink but take it round in the evenings and give it him in bed so at least he won't fall over. Didn't matter that we were finding him in the road, falling out of bed, in his back garden at 6am etc.

Given that he's stuck by her & she has been sober for so long I would want to see her tbh. And if she has changed would be happy to forget.

But we have a very challenging family life with a son causing havoc who cannot help his behaviour (he is severely learning disabled), so I am used to separating behaviour from the person & also seeing truly extrene behaviour in terms of the outward signs of someone in distress.

You talk about feeling unsafe in your own home? Is this key? Are you still frightened of her? I have at times recently felt unsafe in my own home & I think it is hard to deal sensibly & appropriately (or fairly) with someone if you are feeling unsafe. The only way to increase confidence though is to face it head on.

Have a back up plan for it going tits up. That could be confiding in a local friend & having somewhere you could go if it goes tits up. Fwiw I doubt it will, but I know I have escape plans in place for almost every situation with my son at the moment - and I deal much better with him when those are there (even if rarely used). It makes me more confident.

I do think you have to find a way with her - she sounds as if she isn't going anywhere soon. If she has come through the other side of such a terrible time she will probably be a more thoughtful, mature, sensible young woman than most of her age. People who have had big problems to overcome often have a different outlook & more compassion than those who have had perfect lives - it can be a positive thing.

I would definitely wonder about her childhood.

The carry on at your house sounds a bit like some sort of desperate release! Rather than a teenager just getting too drunk which she can do anywhere not at her bf's house..

Perhaps there is something from her childhood that caused this which most likely, at her age, would not be due to her but to how she was treated by someone else.

Give her a chance to prove she's changed.

I think you have to be prepared to take a leap and trust your sons judgement on this now. I really, really doubt he would be wanting to bring her into your home at such an important time as Christmas if he didn't trust her not to screw up again,

He was, by the sounds of it, willing to bring an out of control alcoholic (he must have known that was the case) to his mother's house, unable or unwilling to control her once they arrived and then made no effort to leave as the drama ensued. That's hardly an advert for his judgement.

It's all well and good to talk about sympathy for the unwell. However, it's not anyone's obligation to assist anyone else; charity (in the broadest sense) is a gift, not a duty.

Personally I'd give the woman a chance, mostly for the pragmatic reason that driving a wedge into your relationship with your children is a bad idea and whether the relationship lasts or not I wouldn't give my son the opportunity to feel aggrieved. But given throwing people out at Christmas is not guaranteed to ensure family happiness, while having an out of control drunk in the house is similarly grim, I think I can understand the reluctance.

OP, has your son apologised for the previous incident? After all, had he not brought her to your house, the problem would not have arisen in the first place.

bolograph

The OP's DS had poor judgement three years ago, it's true. But he and his GF have now moved on in a very significant way.

If the OP continues to believe nothing has changed and that she has no obligation to give a second chance to the the woman her DS loves and who could become her DIL, she is the one who will lose.

You sound even more unforgiving than the OP herself. I wonder if everything is always so perfect in your world.

I am a dweller, yes. Quite a negative outlook unfortunately, and over the past few years I've found it quite hard to trust people anyway. I do feel for this girl, I have been reminded that she isn't some sort of ogre, that quite a long time has passed... And I can hopefully find time between now and Christmas to go down to see my son and her.
Part of me doesn't trust his judgement about her - which is why it's even more important that I finally do see her again properly I suppose. But no, he never apologiesd for bringing her or for staying so long (I honestly don't know why I didn't ask them to get out earlier, it was as though I was frozen/just hoping it would stop?).

I'm married to an alcoholic in recovery. He was in the early stages of recovery when I met him and I've never seen him drink, but I have seen him grow and change as he worked his steps with the AA. He is a wonderful man, the AA saved his life and I'm so very glad that I gave him a chance and carried on dating him. He has been sober for years now and knows he can never drink again. It is very much an illness.

If she is going to AA and has been sober for 2 1/2 years, that doesn't just mean she hasn't had a drink, it means she has had to go through a programme of change which works on the alcoholic making a full and honest appraisal of themselves and their relationship with drink. There is no hiding place and it's a process which requires a huge commitment to want to change and work on it every day.

I completely understand your fear and how you must feel after last time. Part of the difficulty is that since it happened, your own life has presumably been much the same. You've carried on living in the same place/same people around you/possibly nothing much eventful. The events of 3 years ago still feel raw because they were so dramatic/abnormal compared to your normal life. In the same time period, your son and his girlfriend have been through a huge period of change, and what happened feels very distant.

I think you should try some open and honest communication directly with the girlfriend, either by email or by phone. Tell her how you are feeling, ask her about her recovery, engage with her as an adult who is, like it or not, a part of your family. Find out more about her and try to find some common ground. Talk to her about yourself, tty to get to know each other afresh. You are under no obligation to have her in your house, but you can start building bridges. I would want to maintain my relationship with my son too much to not try something.

As for "lock up all the alcohol/don't drink in front of her", that's not necessary. AA helps alcoholics to be able to be around alcohol but know it is not for them. It's unavoidable (especially if she's 21!) so she'll be used to others drinking around her. My husband's family have been known to have (a lot) to drink, he's able to spend time with them without it being an issue, including times like Christmas/New Year. The only slightly tricky thing for him is the amount of food on menus which has alcohol in it e.g. Red wine sauce/steak & ale pie/sherry trifle.

I wouldn't find it easy to move on but my uncle was an alcoholic who lost his wife and DCs through it. He visited us every Christmas, had a massive relapse, got drunk and argumentative, and my DF had to put him out of the house. . . every single year of my childhood. He was loud and it was scary, and I had the buffer of lots of adults in the house, and a number of men who were capable of ensuring he didn't physically hurt anyone.

So I would have concerns possibly completely irrationally about whether there was something about the festive period that is triggering for her. I would have concerns about my DS' judgement and honesty in appraising where she is in her recovery. And I would also have concerns about the dynamic of their relationship because your DS grew up in a house with an enabler/co-dependent relationship albeit your relationship with your ex was around fidelity and alcoholic, not just alcoholism.

I wouldn't forget what had happened and I would establish boundaries accordingly. But I would also accept that she was a part of my DS' life and I would want to meet her on neutral territory to try to start building a different relationship.

I wonder if you have problems establishing boundaries because of the difficult relationship you had with your ex. If so, then you might find the book, 'Boundaries' helpful. Your DS is an adult and I think you have to consider the dynamic of your relationship with him too.

I agree that if you have them to stay then it would be advisable to have a back up plan.

And if that is shipping them off to the B&B if necessary then so be it.

Ask your son what you could do to make a visit easier for her.

Another, I do feel for you. Circumstances, like distances involved etc, are making a complicated situation even more complicated.

I am inclined to agree that Christmas, when people are full of expectations, and also when most people want to be able to relax over the few days, including having a few drinks, may not be the right time.

Yes, trying to go see them in their surroundings or neutral territory over the autumn/before Christmas is a VERY good idea if you can do it.

But I think that you may need to, in the nicest possible way, postpone the visit until Easter. Better weather for getting out and about alone or together, and less (?) likelihood of the visit being necessarily extended due to weather problems. And also, while it is a relaxing time too, it is less bound up in drinking. And has fewer expectations for people to "RELAX AND ENJOY THE FESTIVE SEASON AT ALL COSTS!!" (which brings stress in its own rights). It may even, and not something you have to do but could consider, be a time that you would be comfortable with having an alcohol free celebrations - but even if not, I find there tends to be a lot less at Easter than Christmas.

Talk to them both, try to go visit in person, and let them know that you are willing to work on this but that you want to take it slowly to get it right.

And when they do come, make sure that your DS knows the expectations that he will not just be a "guest" but that they will need to be involved. And that if there are problems, the visit will need to be cut short or they WILL have to move to the B&B (whatever about appearances) as you cannot be abused in your home anymore- it NEEDS to stay your safe place. But from a place of loving your DS and wanting what is best for him, so being willing to build a relationship with the GF and looking not at the past but at the future.

I wonder how easy it will be to book a B&B at short notice during the Christmas period?

That doesn't sound like a good contingency to me.

He visited us every Christmas, had a massive relapse, got drunk and argumentative, and my DF had to put him out of the house. . . every single year of my childhood.

So I would have concerns possibly completely irrationally about whether there was something about the festive period that is triggering for her.

This seems to be quite a common thing, people who are in control the rest of the year seem to have problems at christmas (well from reading forums like this)
So it will be stressfull visit for everyone (she feeling ashamed of last time, knowing you don't really want her there, your son knowing all this and wanting to please both parties, and you worrying is she going to go bad all the time). This will not make a good atmosphere, making relapse soo much more likely.

Nah, I am with you. She would not be welcome, and I would seriously rethink my own opinion of my SON in your shoes.

I would tell him if he is serious about this woman it is time the two of them start making their own Christmas traditions. It is better, if he cannot see why you dont now want to have her over for Christmas, without her having met you in person in the last couple of years to apologize or in any way understand her own behavior the last Christmas and what she put you through.

APlace's experience is exactly why I don't think Christmas would be a good time to do this visit. Too much bad feeling, too much history, too much stress - and is there even an AA group on the island?

But I see that the OP has come round to the idea of meeting up with her DS and his GF prior to Christmas on neutral ground, so hopefully the Christmas thing won't be an issue.

I think Christmas will have to be a no. Lonely and bitter woman eating a small turkey in the middle of a bleak island... Oh dear. I hope that I don't come across as completely unforgiving, it's just that my trust was really damaged, and I was frightened - felt stupid for being so but there it is.

Maybe when I meet them she will be lovely and different, but I still don't think that means I should immediately throw open my door. Hopefully they can understand that - presumably she has had the experience of other people in her life she has hurt having to grow to trust her again?