AIBU re DS and rent

[Weathergames]

DS nearly 18. Against my wishes he has left college and got a full time job - fine.

I have told him he will have to pay his way as I will lose maintenance from his dad and child benefit. We have agreed a third of his wages. Today I told him he will have to put his mobile in his own name and pay it and yesterday I bought him a load of toiletries and to him that's the last lot I am buying.

Today he has asked to discuss money. His dad had agreed 1/3 was reasonable and has never wanted him living with him in his new wife's home as they have students and have never made DS feel particularly welcome - he does not get in with DSM as there are 1000s of rules and she's v controlling.

DS is now saying his dad has told him if I am going to "over charge" him then his dad has said he can go and live there for £25 a week - if this is true AIBU to be fucking furious?

I think a 3rd is pretty spot on OP. Since i have been of working age (20yrs) that's been approx the amount i have spent on rent/mortgage. As my wage increased i went from a rented room in a shared house, to a rented house with another friend, to a rented flat with exH, to a mortgage on a flat with exH, to a rented flat with now DH, to a house with a mortgage with DH etc etc. When i think back to all the costs, the rent/mortgage was always between 25-50% of the household income, usually around the 1/3 mark. Then 1/4-1/3 for bills and 1/3 left over. We currently pay exactly 1/3 on mortgage and the rest on fares, bills and child costs. I bloody wish i had 2/3 left over to spend on myself!

When i first started working i earned 85 pounds a week and my parents asked for 35. Which was still better than my friends who lived in bedsits, as they paid 50 and had to pay for their own food and cook it. But they had more freedoms and independence, so it was swings and roundabouts.

Round here a room in a pretty skanky shared house is 650 a month. I think he has a bargain!

The thing is all those posters who are happy giving free bed and board are free to do so with their own kids. If you choose to do it differently you're free to do so with yours. You're not doing anything horrifically out of the ordinary so don't worry yourself and just do what's right for you and your family.

Weathergames I can not believe the amount of flak you have taken on here

I think your DS might be well advised to PM some of the more vociferous netters here and ask to move in with them

Fwiw I would be doing the exact same thing with my DS if he decided that working was the way forward rather than continuing his education at college or university.

I wouldn't be in any particular hurry for him to move out and I'd be happy to feed him (assuming he was around at mealtimes). I'd be bloody furious that the ex was playing Billy-big-boll*s as regards how much he'd decreed was 'fair' with DS but had a chronic case of sloping shoulders when asked about it though. Of course he's happy regardless because he's I'm pretty sure I read 150 notes better off each month (maybe that has something to do with the minimal payments required at his house, eh?)

Quite frankly your finances are irrespective whether you are loaded or skint. Paying your way (or at least a contribution towards as with this case) is an unavoidable fact of life-one it's best he learn to deal with from the safety of home rather than in social housing or with a private landlord where there are ramifications way beyond 'Mum's got the 'ump' if you can't or won't pay.

I've been in a similar position. I've asked my son for 20%. He often complains, but I tell him if he can find a place to live for ??200 a month to let me know and I'll go and live there and rent our house out! He soon shuts up. He also pays for his phone, toiletries if posh, car insurance, dentist, glasses and everything related to his personal expenditure. He's learning fast about money. Let him go. You'll save a fortune on food etc. You could rent his room out!

YANBU.
He has chosen this path and will have to walk it now.

Tell him you hope he stays but understand if he wants to go elsewhere but that he's welcome to come back if it doesn't work out.

He needs to learn what 'stuff' costs. I bet he'll start by reducing his mobile phone bill a bit.

Does he pull his weight around the house? If not, its time he did, he's barely going to pay his way in the house, despite being a working adult. Cleaning, gardening etc

Oh and his Dad sounds like a troublemaker.

He has chosen by leaving education and going into work to start the "adult" period of his life. Adults pay rent.

Hes getting the best deal for this he will ever have in his life with the flexible amount based on how many hours he gets. If he wants to go and live with his dad then as an adult, thats his choice, and he will have to live with the circumstances he has chosen.

He would be very lucky if he can continue only paying 1/3 of his wages when he moves on from living with a parent, getting to keep 2/3 of your wages to spend or save on whatever you wish is a luxury most people dont have.

Dm charged me ??15 per week in 1978. I at the time was earning ??80 per month. On the months I couldn't cover all my expenses she would loan me the money and charge me interest. 1/3 sounds like a bargain.

I should add it all fell apart when dm wanted to charge me for my food as she had moved in her sister and her family who were living rent free but paid half the food bill and were annoyed that I didn't contribute to the food bill. My train fare was ??4 per week just to get back and forth from work. In the end I moved out to a house share that was closer to work and cost ??10 per week all in.

Get your son to download a free budgeting app like GoodBudget. I have been shit with money all my life and this is slowly starting to pull me out of the woods. You set up 'envelopes' (I have groceries, diesel, fixed bills, my spends, DH's spends, kids' expenses, credit card payments & miscellaneous) with set amounts. He would only need eg 'rent', 'phone', 'travel', 'savings' and 'fun money'. Then you enter everything you spend as you spend it. It's quick and easy, and you can change the amounts about if you earn less in one month. I wish I'd had something like this as a student and young adult.

Oh, and YANBU. If a room in a shared house is ??450 pcm then he would be stuffed in the real world.

He hasn't got full time work.

He has got a contract for 10 hours per week.

On those hours he can't afford to live anywhere that won't accept a percentage of whatever he earns.

So that means he is not capable of living independently on his earnings.

This is what he has chosen, and part of being old enough to drop out of school and start working in a shop is realising when you are being subsidised.

Let him go and find a room for rent where he can pay ??20 on the weeks the shop is slow.

I'm amused by his Dad's "??25 is plenty for you to pay your mum" being interpreted as an offer for him to move in and pay that to his Dad.

You really should call both their bluffs on that one.

Yes - typical of his dad to drop a steaming shit in the middle of everything and walk away saying "it's not my mess". I am 99% certain that his father has no intention of allowing him too move in there and even if he did there is no way his wife would OK it.

I spoke to DS last night (he has been avoiding me since our heated discussion on Sunday). I asked him if he felt his dad was offering that as an alternative and he said yes he thought he was. I to him to think long and hard about it as things are very different there (didn't mention that his father seems to think all he needs feeding is a slice of toast every morning ) and he might not like it, but he can always come back here and accept my offer. He looked a bit surprised as if he felt sure I would change my mind at the threat of him going to his dad's.....

Good for you!

Hope he takes it as an incentive to get more work/money/save a bit.

Is there any reason why you can't charge him ??25 a week, or ??50? That would be on a par with what other posters are saying they charge, around the ??200-240 a month mark.

You have been remarkably evasive as to what you are actually charging him and on what terms. From what some posters have projected, the rent goes down if he only works 10 hours a week, and so would only be ??95 a month, which is less than the "steaming shit" proposed by your ex. Your figures don't seem to correspond to your image of generous charity in providing your son with a room.

You also swing between not seeming to like your son very much (to be fair, if this was a man talking about his daughter in the same way, opinions would be very different on here) and saying he isn't ready to move out. But how is he going to save a deposit for a rented room in a short space of time?

You're also in cloud cukoo land if you think a room in a person's own rented family house is equivalent to one on the open market, where the landlord will have to pay tax and other requirements.

Its my experience that those who had it fairly easy themselves are the most keen to take money off people for living at home, and I think you don't want to lose the revenue stream from your now adult son. The way you talk about your ex is horrible (yes, things no doubt happened but (a) no child wants to hear that and (b) his email actually made some relevant points. You sound almost gleeful that this young man has a choice between staying in your house and being made homeless and that your manoeuvring has let you get one over on your ex.

I suspect most posters who think the same are now too scared of the traditional mumsnet vitriol to post, so I'll bow out now. I hope I'm wrong and the way you write gives entirely the wrong impression of you and your relationship with your son. But surely you have to be planning for him moving out in the near future, the way things are, and doing everything you can as a parent, to help him at this crucial stage in his life (and I don't mean giving him money).

I think you sound a little bit unbalanced - (and not very good crap at maths) but hopefully I'm wrong the way you write gives entirely the wrong impression of you - and maybe get some support regarding your relationship with your father.

I adore my son and want to teach him to be a responsible adult.

I think you sound a little bit unbalanced - (and not very good crap at maths) but hopefully I'm wrong the way you write gives entirely the wrong impression of you - and maybe get some support regarding your relationship with your father.

He's long dead, thanks anyway, but I don't find passive aggressive comments are generally designed to help. Why post on an internet forum if you don't want varying responses? I think I'm reasonably well balanced - I'm not the one slagging off various people.

I adore my son and want to teach him to be a responsible adult.

I'm glad to hear it. That's the first nice thing you've said about him on this thread.

typical of his dad to drop a steaming shit in the middle of everything and walk away saying "it's not my mess"

I think in this instance he has unwittingly presented you with a gift.

The fact that your son misunderstood his shit-stirring as an offer of cheap lodgings is now about to bite both of them in the arse and teach each of them a valuable lesson.

And don't mind Lady Daddy Issues, it's quite clear that you love your son and want to teach him how to start being an independent adult at a very important juncture of his life.

Arf @ screm Anyone would think the op was charging him his full wage packet to live in the shed!

I feel sorry for your ds, op

it sounds like you're spitting the dummy out because you're losing child benefit and maintenance now he is older....this isn't his fault!!

he must feel like his mum can't be arsed with him now she's not getting much for him and his dad sounds like a waste of space

poor kid.

She hasn't been remotely evasive elke, it's just that you chose not to see certain things. Also, there's a reason nobody on the entire thread except you thought OP might be talking about pre-tax income. The reason people aren't coming forward to agree with you is not the traditional MN vitriol. It's you being on a frolic of your own. I say this as someone who totally understands why people wouldn't want to charge in OP's situation.

Yes, that's exactly how I feel about my son

I didn't feel it necessary to gush about my love for him because I take it as given that I love him and want the best for him.

However I have bills to pay and now so does he as has chosen to leave school and get a job.

He talks to me about everything and we spend a lot of time together - however I didn't feel that was relevant to this thread which is about practicalities.

*I feel sorry for your ds, op

it sounds like you're spitting the dummy out because you're losing child benefit and maintenance now he is older....this isn't his fault!!

he must feel like his mum can't be arsed with him now she's not getting much for him and his dad sounds like a waste of space

poor kid.*

Or maybe she's just trying to show him the natural consequences of the decisions he's making. Why shouldn't he pay towards his upkeep? Maintenance and child benefit stops when a child/near adult leaves education is because it is assumed that a wage earner should be paying their way.

Am not sure what you mean "it's not his fault" he had a choice, stay at school and be supported or leave and support yourself and pay your own way in life because the finicial support is only there while you are in education. I cannot magic money to replace money that is no longer there can I? Or do you suggest my other children go without because he has left college?

Weather there are approx. 3 people on the thread who think YABU. Everyone else is saying you are being completely reasonable. I think on this occasion you can safely go with the majority :o

We were told that as soon as we left education, we were responsible for contributing to the household as paying adults. Every generation prior to that was the same. And now we see a generation of kidults who can't seem to do anything and we wonder why

My only concern in all this is that your son will decide to go to his dad's only to be rejected. So on that basis it might be better to set a fixed sum of money per week, maybe ??30-40 or whatever you think is reasonable. That way in your son's good weeks he can pay a bit more upfront and in the weeks when he has fewer hours he will have 'banked' some credit with you. He might find it easier to deal with a fixed amount. By paying a % it might deter him from doing extra hours, in a 'cutting off his nose to spite his face' way.

I expect a flat rate of ??200 would replace the CB and his Father's maintenance, but that would mean some months he's going to be quite poor. He should go for the 1/3 deal!

So you lose CB and maintainence and suddenly can't afford to support him? What about your contribution? Realistically it's only food and basic clothes a you would have heating/electric/rent to pay anyway.

It's quite mercenary to look at children as income generators, yes he's left college but does that mean he should be punished for daring to do so? Should he stay and be unhappy so you get an income from the ex and the state?

My mortgage is ??800 pounds a month for starters - his dad's ??150 and the family allowance don't really cover that - and I lost my tax credits last year when do moved in and he pays his ex over ??500 a month - money is tight - every penny counts and I work full time.

Those things are bloody irrelevant anyway - why the hell should he NOT contribute?