migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

There's an awful lot I could pick out from your post, Iusedtobe, but the main one is this.

I find it really hard to be tolerant where they have literally just stepped into the country are astonishingly rude and ungrateful.

So it's alright when someone who is white and British is rude and ungrateful, but worse somehow if they're new to the country? Are they supposed to be showing you gratitude for letting them in? You do realise that the only difference between you and them, is that you were lucky - that's right, lucky, not special or worked hard or deserving in any way - enough to be born in this country, and they were not.

And they bring all of their family with them?

No dont twist my words jorah.
It is absolutely not ok for white British to be rude and ungrateful either.and believe me, I see plenty of them too.
The point im trying to illustrate is that if you had just travelled to a foreign country where you are accessing excellent health care (better than your home country) for free then yes, you Should be grateful. I would be!
Thankfully ive never had to access hospital care abroad but if I did, it would be via private insurance and even then, I wouldnt be expecting UK standards. Id be happy to be safe and cared for.

Syria is second world, not third world and many of its young men have left rather than stayed to fight. The British stayed and fought off the Germans in Europe, although we failed against the French in 1066.

I do think everyone who uses the NHS should be very grateful and thankful.

It is only people like the poster above at the coalface of these things who can really tell how it is. Plenty of people have no direct experience of the impact of some immigrants on others.

I am fairly pro immigrant for those who want to come and work hard and not use state resources. They have made a huge difference to London mostly for the better but not entirely. A huge amount of terrible sexism, anti kaffir and homo phobia comes with some of them (again not all). Even the kurds who let their women fight have honour killings.

All the posters like you, frequency who have commented how we are lucky to be born here, and I agree BTW, what do you think should happen to the unlucky people who weren't born here?

It is only people like the poster above at the coalface of these things who can really tell how it is

Evidence is not the plural of anecdote.

I've never met a rude Asian doctor, nor an English one for that mater.

Perhaps if all the muslims are being rude to Carmen, one might assume that the issue is not with the muslims?

How do you know they're "just off the plane"? Are they still clutching a boarding pass or something?

And as I've said, I also work in a hospital that treats a high number of Muslims and have not had the same experience as carmen.

interesting tweets lemon, confrming what I think we already presumed.

I think you might've taken something slightly different from them to me!

Do you become an economic migrant the minute you leave somewhere technically safe but where you have no chance at life?

Migration on the scale we have seen since the mid 1990s in this country is on a scale unprecedented in the UK's history. People who say "we've always taken in immigrants" well, yes, but not on such a massive scale over such a long period.

For example 3 million non EU migrants (mainly from Africa and the Greater Middle East) came to Britain between just 2005 and 2015, per ONS figures (on a gross basis).

The population of Africa is 1.1 Billion forecast to be 2.4 Billion in 34 years. The vast majority of people in Africa are sadly living in poverty stricken and poor conditions, and 6.3 million children under 5 died in 2013 in Africa from preventable causes according to the WHO. How does that compare with the tragic photo of the kid on the Turkish beach?

This Syria crisis has so far produced 4 million migrants, most of whom are refugees. the last stats from Eurostat show that only 16% of all asylum claimants in the EU were from Syria. Most were from Kosovo and economic migrants. 10,000 Syrians accepted into the UK - it is just the very beginning, as the 3 million in camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan will now realise they can travel to the EU and get EU passports through the asylum system.

And Syria has a population of just 21 million. There will be a next regional crisis and the next and the next, and for example a country like Nigeria has a population of 174 million forecast to grow to 450 million in 34 years, and is fighting ISIS affiliated Boko Haram. If ISIS start in Nigeria it won't be 4 million refugees, it will be 40 million coming to Europe.

Most of the Muslim world from countries where we are taking migrants - Africa and Middle East, are characterized by their oppression of gay people, women, and apostasy, on the basis of religious justification. The stoning to death of women, the killing of LGBT people, the beheading of Muslims who convert to another religion - Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen etc.

The main Islamic countries are interpreting their religion in this way. It is like the Pope announcing that he wants all adulterous women to be stoned to death in St Peter's Square. That's where the main players in the Muslim world are now, and if you read Innes Bowen's book (BBC journalist) her research shows that 51% of all British mosques are controlled and funded by the extreme Saudi Wahhabis and the Afghan Deobandis.

Sure, help genuine refugees, but if we bring them to Britain and give them British passports, don't close your eyes to the real, present & future risks involved, and the sheer and unprecedented scale of the issue.

I actually believe that we need to resettle refugees equitably throughout Europe and stable middle eastern countries. Pressure countries such as Turkey etc to allow their fair share of refugees permanent residency and the right to work, in order to enable them to restart their lives and in the long term support the countries which they are coming from in pushing back ISIS, ending human rights violations, building new infrastructure and creating employment and helping their people to return to a safe and stable country, which is not something that will happen overnight.

In the interim these people need help now. Britain needs to step up and take our fair share.

These people are wanting to leave Turkey and other border countries because although they are safe, they have no life there and no foreseeable prospects. I wouldn't want that for my children, I'm not sure why we should expect Syrians to accept it for theirs.

I was fortunate enough to be born in Britain because in WW2 my family were allowed into the UK.

Thanks Janet
Look folks im not looking to pick a fight. Yeah perhaps the blame lies with me. Im intolerant of other cultures? Thats what being suggested.
Im only going on what ive seen. I know nothing about politics or immigration.

When I say stepped off the plane, I mean I, and my colleagues, have cared for women new into the UK. When i say new ,I mean they come to labour ward contracting and say they arrived a few days ago. Unbooked. No antenatal care here.
Now could I arrive in a non euro country, turn up at a hospital and get free care? Perhaps I could. I somehow doubt it.
If I was so lucky I certainly would not be so rude and to dictate what I wanted. I would also have to be able to speak the language as I guess there wouldnt be a free English interpreter on stand by.

frequency, it is perfectly plausible that heavily pregnant non-European females arrive in an eu country to give birth. it is very public knowledge that there was a huge influx of heavily pregnant non eu females arriving in ireland to give birth, because the child automatically got irish citizenship. this resulted in the childs parent/guardian submitting an application for permission to remain in Ireland. this was automatically granted as it is the right of the child to have their parent(s)/guardian with them. in many many cases these females would have 4,5,6 other non irish born dependents also, and these too were also granted residency. many associates of mine are healthcare professionals and the would completely echo what the op said about lack of gratitude shown by some of these females. in one of our main childrens hospitals, there were loud calls from non-Catholic groups to abolish the Christmas Crib in the hospital, as it offended them. To me, that is completely unacceptable. Thankfully these calls were rejected.

Exactly converse.
Spot on snowmunch.

the loophole in irish law, which resulted in this automatic granting of citizenship, has now been closed, by overwhelming majority of people voting to close it. this was simply because of the pre-meditated abuse of it.

Because they've been sitting in a tent for 4 years, with no end in sight and no chance of an education or brighter future for their children.

Safe it might be, a life it ain't.

its amazing how many of the refugees who have 'escaped' from imminent death, waste no time once reaching europe, in getting their placards out to protest that... the food isn't good enough, they aren't in their country of choice, etc etc.

You would imagine they would be so grateful to the receiving countries, having escaped the clutches of death (apparently)

but no....straight in, throw their bags down and start whining and whining about how the water isn't perrier, there's no caviar and they aren't being treated in the way they demand.

How dare we try to perform any sort of data collection or identification on them. They don't want any of that shit, eh?...just kick the doors down and crash straight in to your country demanding special treatment....giving you the fingers as they pass.

What do you do though lemon? Im guessing you are not a midwife?
Frequency
No denying these people, although safe, have a shit life. Its going on the world over. Desperately sad in the 21st century but its happening.

What do we do, rescue everyone?

I've never seen a refugee asking for perrier and caviar? Admittedly I don't read the news much, maybe I missed it. Which news outlet made us aware of this?

I've only seen refugees ask for the opportunity of a new, stable future for themselves and their family.

I support sending the perrier demanding ones back. How very dare they.

but no....straight in, throw their bags down and start whining and whining about how the water isn't perrier, there's no caviar and they aren't being treated in the way they demand.

Okay, I'm now thinking that onlysaying is a parody of a Daily Mail/Express reader and is having a laugh? That has to be the most ludicrous comment I've read on this thread, and that says a lot considering what the competition is!

onlysaying
Here, here.
I totally do not get the country of choice. Surely you would be massively relieved to be safe!
My country of choice may be the Maldives I think. But if I was fleeing torture or death id be grateful to get anywhere and to see the Red CRoss waiting and know they care.
Its my point exactly about the NHS and the ungrateful non residents I see. Though in all honesty its probably the fault of the ever tolerant and welcoming, politically correct NHS at fault. Cant blame the chancers.
No ones scared of the authorities in the UK. You can do what the hell you like.
Zero tolerance for any public service staff but 100% tolerance for every other fucker.