migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

If there are camps in Syria that are accessible I agree with taking refugees direct from there Kanye.

In all fairness people at the extreme end of any religion do bonkers shit.

We have small muslim community here. The only notable interaction I've had with any of them was when a muslim father (male) paid for our ice creams at the school fair, just because.

Besides from that incident they generally just get on with their daily life in much the same way as all us non muslim folk do. They smile and say hello when you pass them on the school run and give the occasional "We've all been there, love" when you are pulling your hair out as your 5yo decides halfway to school that they don't want to wear those knickers, they want the pink knickers.

I can't say they really effect my way of life.

Maybe us Northerners rub off them. Send them all here, we'd rather them than all you southerners who keep coming here for our cheap houses anyway

I met a man on a teaching course I did who could not shake hands with women. I didn't find this at all offensive, it's his religious belief. I understand there is an exception if it is a life or death situation but other than that, what on earth does a touching exception matter? He was a perfectly nice bloke. He didn't ignore women on the course at all, in fact it didn't even come up until the end when people were saying goodbye.

People at the extreme end of any religious scale are nutters, doesn't mean the religion itself is bad. Extreme Christians advocate a similar thing - look up the Quiverfull movement. (They would be unlikely to object to female nursery teachers because women are "for childcare" but they object to nursery and outside schools in general.)

The only notable interaction I've had with any of them was when a muslim father (male) paid for our ice creams at the school fair, just because.

I totally agree, Frequency and Bertie - a live and let live attitude is what is needed here.

I do hold our media largely responsible for the anti-muslim feelings here - their fear-mongering stories can be shocking. Then if a Daily Express reader person happens to have a bad experience with some who happens to be muslim, they attribute that to all muslims - disregarding similar clashes they've had with white British people.

Dare I ask what the issue is with cornflakes?
If you check the side of a box of cornflakes you will find they are marked as halal.

Thanks for the answer Pipbin, I'll look next time I buy some!

This is the best article I've read on how to solve the refugee crisis and is food for thought for anyone worried that opening our doors to them is not the answer

www.vice.com/en_uk/read/we-asked-an-expert-how-to-solve-the-migration-crisis

Oh look. Cornflakes are both kosher and halal.

There aren't any refugee camps inside Syria. It's an active war zone with little humanitarian aid occurring inside its borders. Rescuing people from within Syria would be extremely dangerous.

The camps are outside Syria, on the borders of Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey. These camps have been running for over 4 years now and are overwhelmed by the numbers they are having to deal with.

That's why increasing numbers are fleeing to Europe.

I'm not liking the good refugee/bad refugee thing happening here. The ones in Europe are here now, they are a European problem. Unless you want to take them all back to the Syrian border and cherry-pick a few refugees from there (which would be hugely expensive, btw), do you seriously suggest ignoring them?

Kanye - with your comments about photogenic children, you seem to be imagining that this all started last week. Syrians have been dying since March 2011. I think they're overdue some attention.

I have rtft and awful attitudes to some posters who are voicing concerns.

I think you'll find that the "awful attitudes" were saved for those who were voicing some rather racist sentiments (eg, judging all Muslims on a couple who'd said something nasty to them), not just concerns about letting refugees into the country.

They're not voicing concerns. Concerns, such as those your BIL has, are fair enough. Some of us might even share them.

What I'm objecting to is the horrible racist stereotyping, and even attempts to paint particular refugees as opportunisitic liars who pull their own teeth out to manipulate gullible lefties. I think it's absolutely vile. MNHQ obviously agree to an extent, since they deleted one particularly nasty post.

I do find this thread fucking tedious and depressing, yes. I have thought about hiding it. But for some reason I feel it necessary to continue calling people out when they are making offensive, racist comments, and slandering people who are suffering trauma. Because otherwise this thread, and public opinion generally, is in danger of being engulfed by them.

Absolutely we should take in refugees who are in camps on thr Syria border. They must be living in terrible conditions and still not safe. Those already in Europe, though may not be un ideal conditions-are safe.
I do not get all this picking and choosing where they want to go! I watched the TV coverage in HUngary a few days ago where the coaches arrived and took the refugees across yo Austria. The reporter had been asking what their country if choice was. What? Country of choice. Wouldn't you be relieved that you were safe? Maybe further down the line you may want to apply like everyone else to a country of choice but reqlly in appropriate at the minute.
I am totally welcoming to anyone in danger of persecution but some posters on mumsnet take it to another level. The naivety of some posters is laughable.

All posting from middle class suburbia no doubt.
Will not be affected by some if the refugees who are actually really more interested in economic migrancy.

Actually, I am hiding this now. Am back at work and don't want the distraction. Hopefully the thread will be full soon. It's certainly been the worst one I've been involved with, or, indeed, have seen on MN (in ten years).

Technically, they are migrants until they claim asylum. Then they are asylum seekers. If their asylum claim is successful after the authorities test their claims, then they obtain refugee status, and are refugees.

Only 16% of asylum seekers who came into the EU were from Syria. Most were from Kosovo and almost certainly economic migrants (even the BBC says that). Google "Eurostat quaterly report asylum" table 4.

Turkishly
All posting from middle class suburbia no doubt.
Nope. One of three reception centres in the country is at the end of my road. It's been there for years and you can literally trace world events from who's sitting out the front, quiet and traumatised a few weeks later.
Here's a link to register your practical support (befriending accompanying to meetings) and lobbying councils to accept refugees.
Avaaz

Not even gonna rise to the middle class suburbia comment because it's so pathetic.

Saw some good tweets re the reasons Syrians are risking everything to come to the EU- someone has linked them so they're easier to read here if anyone is interested.

storify.com/baldry/worth-reading-these-knowledgeable-tweets-from-turk

god almighty some of the posters on here are pure vicious in their shouting down of other posters who don't agree with them. tolerance is a key word in this whole migrant issue. certainly not much of it on here.

Since when is calling out racism regarded as viciousness?

Well the blatant bullying of lilmisssunshine is shocking. Grown women goading and trying to trip her up on her her comments.
I would like to add my opinion. I am only going on my own observations and not backed up with any statistics. Just what I see. I admit, im not totally clued up with the immigration process in the Uk.
I work in a busy (understatement) hospital in a big city. I work as a midwife. Over the many yrs rhat I have worked there I have seen a massive change. A huge majority of the women are Muslim. Mainly Asian Pakistani but many from other countries too. The constant demands of bending to different cultural requests is becoming intolerable to me. Only female staff being a main one. Ludicrous is a busy Western hospital where staff are mixed. I would prefer a female doctor myself, most women would, but realise in the NHS ulyou get what you get. Otherwise pay private. Our trust is constantly dealing with complaints from patients, who no joke who have just stepped off the plane. Who have come from places such as Afghanistan where I imagine (no facts sorry) healthcare is pretty poor. Asking for private rooms, relatives to stay. I find it really hard to be tolerant where they have literally just stepped into the country are astonishingly rude and ungrateful.
From what I observed and from Muslim colleagues etc they are mostly not happy to integrate and just about tolerate us non muslims. Privately I suspect they speak very negatively about non muslims.
I do meet and know some lovely people but overall there are huge differences. Differences that will ultimately affect the UK.
I do support the government helping and accepting Syrians from the refugee camps. However, I cannot lie and say im not worried. I know it's a separate issue but I think there will be no end of migrants and refugees wanting to come to Europe. I fear for the UK and I have no doubt that eventually this country will end up predominantly MUslim. I will make no apologies when I say I dont want to live in a place like that. Although, in reality it will probably not be in my lifetime.

Oh get a grip, no one bullied anyone, she spouted some nonsense and people challenged her on it.

Are you trying to say that heavily pregnant Afghan women fly to Britain, in late pregnancy just to give birth on the NHS?

I work in an NHS hospital in an area with a high Muslim population and I have not had the same experiences as you by the way. Awkward patients come from all backgrounds in my experience!

F, people. There was that Nigerian lady who had 5 babies at once who flew over for the birth and is now back. The father is quite rich in Nigeria and the NHS altghough billing her the £120k cost seem to have done absolutely nothing about recovery of teh money in Nigeria. our NHS A&E has to have massive signs up all over about whether people attending have the right to NHS care as there are so many people here (a London borough) coming over for NHS tourism as it were.

Most of us are not anti immigrant but it is the sheer numbers which are the problem not just because we cannot as a nation afford it big housing shortages in many cities (600,000 new people came to the UK last year) but because of the cultures.

Yes frequency I am.
Why else? Amazing how you can fly into the UK at any gestation of pregnancy, yet we have cut offs to when we are allowed to safely fly.
Sorry only going on my observations. Om waiting for someone yo shout the usual racist rubbish.