In finding it hard to believe people let their young kids take up seats on trains when adults are standing

[gatorgolf]

Never get the train anymore, first time today in about 10 yrs got train to take DS to London. Train home was really really busy people standing in all the aisles as well as the doorways. We sat DS who is 5 on our knee as I thought that was the done thing when train busy. Family near us had two kids, one about the same age as DS, one slightly older maybe 6 or 7, kids had a seat each for the entire journey. I know its not comfortable to have kids on your knee for long time but its more comfortable than having to stand, there was 4 adults in there party so they could have taken the knee sitting in turns or even made the kids squeeze onto one seat to free one up.

Some people are saying children should stand or sit on a knee since they pay a reduced or no fare. Does the same apply to pensioners since they get free bus travel?

Only the remarkable stupid would think that.

On our local train line under 5's travel free, so if it's busy DS2 (4) sits on my lap. DS1 is 9 and pays to travel, so has every right to the seat we've paid for. He'd offer to stand for an older/pregnant/disabled person because, well, he's just a nice kid, but a healthy adult has no right to expect him to move simply because they're older than him.

Mollie are you saying that strangers are more important than your own child.

Only a parent knows whether their child is capable of standing or sitting in their lap, ill, tired or if they have some invisible disability that makes travelling a bit more difficult but never mind if the parent decides that it's safer for the child to sit, lots of righteous people like yourself have just decided the world is fucked because a child has the audacity to sit in a train seat

Iguana - without being provocative, can I ask why adults should take priority? Genuine qu.

It's not provocative. I believe they should. As an adult I also offer my place to the elderly/infirm. I believe it's the respectful thing to do. I think if a child can stand they should offer their seat.

Obviously most other people here disagree with that and have created reasons why they believe it's best their children sit. The person who said "because my children are more important than you. Simples" is at least honest enough to explain the reality. I think it is likely that her opinion is shared by most. But I will never know of course.

Isn't it great that everyone has different opinions? Wouldn't it be a boring place if everyone had the same thoughts.

I have never seen a train thread before on Mumsnet so not sure why OP got so much abuse for starting another one. I am amazed at the amount of people who would not consider a child on lap but I guess it depends on the length of journey and the child. My kids are very tall 9,10 and 12 year olds (think 5'11" for 12 year old) and I have had all of them on my lap (not together!) for various reasons over last year. Although not quite the same,yesterday we were at a big stately home with a 10m bus trip to get back from beach to house. There were too many people for the mimibus so 12 year old had 9 year old on her lap and I had 10 year old on my lap and my husband got off again so an older couple in their 60's(not infirm) could get a seat. There were small children taking up seats that could easily have gone on laps and whose parents made no attempt to do so. Now I can see from Mumsnet why!!

It's interesting that people say that healthy adults can stand - how do you know that they are healthy? I mean some people who are sitting down have sciatica (sympathies, I have it too and it's horrible) or arthritis and you can't tell that they have. How can you tell that the adults standing up don't have a hidden disability or illness? You can't use a hidden disability as a reason for you not being able to have children on your knee and then say that the adults standing are healthy and so don't need a seat!

I commute daily in London and adults always give their seats to children. Sometimes the children then proceed to stand on the seats but hey, your kids your rules.

It's a warming sight when it gets busy when one parent puts a child on their lap, the other two children share a seat and second parent stands. That's just common sense/politeness. It is different on long distance train journeys but no ones kids are more important than anyone else, likewise no adult is more important than anyone else.

When did we become so selfish?

Why are kids considered 2nd class citizens?

vdbfamily I agree - I never understand why people are rude enough to attack someone for starting a thread which has been discussed before. There surely cannot be an expectation that everyone researches through the threads to see if it has been discussed before and to ensure that they
start off a thread on virgin territory.

witch I agree totally

Yes, YABU. If you or other adults want a seat to sit in you should book one in advance or you take your chances along with everyone else to see if one is free when you board the train.

And no, I don't put my DC on my lap. When they were small I did (three or under, say), but my 7-year-old is bloody heavy so there is no way I'd have him on my lap for a train journey. As for my 4-year-old, he's also pretty heavy and he's wriggly and kicks me if he's on my lap and in summer its really hot having a large, heavy DC on your lap.

Why can't we go with the premise that as a rail passenger it's nice if somebody makes space for us obviously discounting if you are visibly pregnant or elderly when it should be automatic but some people on her think it's their God given right to turf a child out of it's seat without giving consideration to whether it's safe or possible for a parent to allow this

P.S. I would in an emergency, obviously, but on a regular train journey - no.

We have 5DC,2 of our children are disabled but you can't tell by looking at them,them having a seat over anyone who is healthy is far more important!

Also I'm disabled so as much I'd love for my children to be able to sit on my lap they can't.

I understand that the terms and conditions often say children who are free must give up their seat for a paying adult. But what happens in the case where an adult has chosen to give their seat up for a child, or the child offered and was declined? The adult in that scenario surely has 'dibs' on the seat, and if someone insists on the child moving the original adult should sit down not the person insisting the child move? So they're no better off anyway?

YABU. It's safer for most adults to stand than it is for young children.

if a private train company are selling more tickets than there are places on the train, then why are people pissed off at certain customers who also have a paid seat, not giving it up, so the train company can jam more people in for profit instead of putting extra carriages

Not everyone wants to put their children at the bottom of other peoples imaginary hierarchies. Children are as worthy people as adults

Regular commuter here and I think it should be first come first served - I don't think that adults should trump kids when it comes to seats. Before I was pregnant I would sometimes offer my seat if it looked like a small person needed it - their balance can be pretty terrible!

That said, it's summer holidays at present and a minority of parents can be SUPER ANNOYING on the train. Getting on with loads of kids at the last minute onto packed rush hour commuter trains and then (loudly) moaning about how there's nowhere for their special snowflakes to sit and how they've paid for a seat. As if the regulars who've paid thousands of pounds for a season ticket haven't...

My mum always made me leave my seat for other people, it pissed me off, she never left the seat herslf.
I used to do it to my son, because that was all I knew. Until one time he said to me "why do you make me move, i was here first it isn't fair, why is she more important"

I refuse to teach my son that he is less important than a random stranger. So no, I no longer make him move unless there is a good reason.

My two pennorth - as usual.

If its reserved seat - child gets it - thats why we reserved afterall.

Actually often prefered my DC on seats and me standing to other way around. But also had them on my lap or doubling up if possible.

If it's a priority seat of course give it up to elderly/disabled/pregnant etc. And if someone is feeling ill, then give them a seat. Just as I would expect my grown up DCs to do - that manners.

But no real children should stand always to let adults sit. Small children are often at more danger standing, and some children are disabled (and its not always obvious).

Should we have a FAQ for this kind of frequently repeating question?

I grew up on the outskirts of London and went on tube journeys regularly. When I was little I always had to sit on a parent's lap, and when I got a bit older I always stood up to let an adult sit down. I never felt 'less important;' I was proud to be able to offer a seat.

Now I live hundreds of miles away, but when I visited recently I explained to my boys , aged 6 and 7, that the seats were for adults, and children could only sit down if there were spare seats. So they either sat on my lap or my mum's lap, stood up, or sat if the carriage was fairly empty. If we were all standing up in a busy carriage and a seat became empty I wouldn't let them rush for it - we let another adult sit down. Yes, sometimes they were tired at the end of a day out, but so were the adults going home from work, and I knew for a fact that as soon as we got back to my mum's house my two would be rushing around the garden anyway. I actually think it's good for children to learn that they are not the centre of the universe and other people have needs too.

Interestingly, on a number of occasions no-one stood to offer my 70 year old mother a seat, and she says that's common. My mother spent her youth giving up seats for other people and yet now that she has more need for one it isn't offered.

Yanbu, OP.

Children shouldn't be occupying seats if adults/the elderly/a pregnant woman is standing.

It's a respect thing.

I don't know why, barring disabilit/pregnancy/illness, an adult should automatically be offered a seat. Why must we expect children of 6 or 7 to spend a journey getting thrown about etc so an adult can sit? Children aren't 2nd class citezens. I think that if you - the adult - aren't willing to give up your seat for the other adult you have no right to complain that children don't offer either. Of course, if elderl/pregnant/disabled I'd agree that the child should offer a seat, it's good manners. The adult shouldn't need to accept it because an abled bodied adult should offer up theirs. Manners don't disappear once youhit 18,and are then an adult. And I hate it on trains and similar when children are stood up,tired,tossed about etc and parents are perfectly comfy in a seat. Parents should put their own comfort behind their children - not saying many don't, but the scenario above really gets my goat. I'd also go as far to say that children NOT adults should come first, except for the offering up of seats - when adults should offer