In finding it hard to believe people let their young kids take up seats on trains when adults are standing

[gatorgolf]

Never get the train anymore, first time today in about 10 yrs got train to take DS to London. Train home was really really busy people standing in all the aisles as well as the doorways. We sat DS who is 5 on our knee as I thought that was the done thing when train busy. Family near us had two kids, one about the same age as DS, one slightly older maybe 6 or 7, kids had a seat each for the entire journey. I know its not comfortable to have kids on your knee for long time but its more comfortable than having to stand, there was 4 adults in there party so they could have taken the knee sitting in turns or even made the kids squeeze onto one seat to free one up.

New to MN so not seen this topic before.

Also lucky enough to have not had to use public transport much when I had small children - and I haven't travelled on the tube for years and never with children.
I have learned loads from this thread - or rather had things pointed out which I hadn't realised (but should have) about small children being at crotch/bag height, having poorer balance, dangers of getting separated etc. I also take the point about having booked seats for children. So when I first started reading, I tended to agree with the OP, but, with the power of MN I see a different pov.
Does the same apply to short bus/train journeys though - ones where you can't book seats?

I travel on trains often with my children. Local trains and inter city, tubes, buses, DLR, steam etc... I don't drive. I have travelled with 3 under 5. In a busy train situation I had no room for all on my lap but I opted to keep the toddlers sat down and hemmed in rather than rolling around the aisles, definitely preferable to other passengers and safer for my dc.

Maybe the rules are different in London, I wouldn't know.

But generally, if you have bought your child a seat then they should be able to sit in it.

I agree that toddlers and preschoolers are wobbly on their feet on trains and buses, but my 2, at 6 and 7, are perfectly capable of standing still and holding a pole without wobbling all over, so I suspect most (note I say most) children of similar age are as well.

Say those people prebooked seats for the kids, or just got there first, why should they have to give them up for an equally able bodied healthy adult?

I would say that it depends on the circumstances. A long train journey then I would have my DC on my lap since he's still a toddler but I wouldn't make him stand, and I don't think I'd make older DC stand either.

Short trips when mine are older - I think I would ask them to stand as a general rule but not in a proper rush hour crush.

I was on the tube at about 7 months pregnant recently when parents let their daughter race me to a seat on the tube (no seats but not really busy) and gave me a stinking look when I didn't defer and give her the seat. That pissed me off.

Just out of interest, what do people do if they go to a bit of a get together in someone's house and there are only so many chairs in the living room, so some people end up sitting on the floor? I'm starting to think I'm in the minority for insisting my children sit on the floor so the adults can have the seats!

I will never offer a pensioner, an adult or a child my seat. I don't expect anyone else to offer their seat to me. If someone has a clear disability then there are priority seats for them where I am so that's not an issue. I get dizzy when standing for long periods so when I've been on my feet shopping for hours the last thing I want to do is anymore standing. If I have to stand then tough I have to stand, that's life. I don't think anybody except someone with a disability has any more right to a seat than I do. I have been pushed out of the way by many a pensioner when getting on public transport.
As for trains I always book my seat in advance unless it's a short distance journey.

I'm not suprised. I was on the main East Coast train recently on a long journey which was rammed. They kept saying over the tannoy could people please take bags off seats to allow people to sit.

There were literally 20plus people standing in every carriage, they couldn't get the refreshment cart through!

I think people must have ignored the tannoy as they kept repeating it. The guard was going nuts.

rum
I would respectfully point out that old age in itself is a disability (as you will realise when you get there) and TBH it is often a very visible disability when someone has arthritus and is unable to grip the bars to hold on, knees and hips that threaten to give way on a long journey - but so long as the children get to have a seat (and yes I have seen them rush to grab seats when the pensioners are slow to get there.)
As I said up thread - we are all humans, no-one has more right because of their age (young or old) than anyone else BUT the vulnerability and needs of the human being come first not some imagined - my children have paid half price for a seat so everyone else can push off as they are more important - nice attitude there.

If I have to stand so be it but I always find a place for my DD to sit (even if its next to a stranger I obviously stand super close too )

where I live it takes a good hour and a half to get to London and that's just too long for her to be sat on my knee not to mention the fact that it can get quite uncomfortable having a wriggly boney bum on your lap for that length of time
also, a seven year old is a bit more independent than that and wouldn't want to be babied. I am currently 35 weeks and obviously get offered a seat but if that meant having my DD on my lap (hardly room for that ATM) I'd just stand and give her the seat x

I think if I haven't prebooked the seats I would sit my DC on my lap or share a two seat with the 3 of us. I do always wonder why people travel in rush hour with small children, clearly sometimes it is unavoidable but commuting every day it amazes me that parents with children get on the packed commuter trains and get grumpy that nobody will give up seats for their children.

I think this thread pretty much sums up what has being going wrong with our society over recent years. I was brought up to respect adults. That included teachers, police etc. As I said, that meant standing up when adults came into the classroom and giving up a seat for an adult on the bus. It was all about respecting ones elders.

So many posters here seem to be raising their DC to think of themselves ahead of others and to no longer bother with the idea of respect. Is it any wonder that these DC think that they know better than their teachers, local police and others in authority?

I don't teach my kids to automatically respect adults. No. Why should they?

I do teach them to respect teachers and police and other similar adults. And I teach them to be kind and considerate.

I will not teach them that the needs of an adult are greater because they are adults. But when old enough I will expect them to look out for those whose needs are greater.

Don't see what's wrong with that myself.

mollie old age is NOT a disability. My granddad is over 80 and he never stops. If someone of old age is well enough to go out and do their shopping and believe me the majority of people who have almost knocked me over barging past have been older people well they are well enough to stand.

Why should I get up for someone else? Who is anyone else to assume that I am not in pain? Like I said where I am from there are seats specifically for someone with a disability so they sit there. As for the other seats they are there for whomever sits in them first. No one is obliged to get up for a child, a pensioner or anyone else. I am pregnant and I still don't expect anyone to move for me. If I was that unwell then I should stay indoors and rest or be in a wheelchair if i'm unable to stand.

Respect works both ways and adults can be just as rude as children so in my eyes I respect those who respect me. Not offering my seat for someone has nothing to do with respect. That's what seats are there for and unless there is a notice that states that a pensioner or child is unable to stand then i'm sorry but people need to get over themselves and learn to respect that they are no more entitled than the person sat down. If we are all human beings then we should behave like them and not like animals who cant wait their turn.

We've travelled on long journey's lots of time when the train has been overcrowded (so the real issue is lack of carriages) and we have stood for over 2 hours with our children rocking about and holding on for dear life.

Never once has an adult offered their seat to our children, so no, if we get a seat, we won't be offering one back!!!

I made my children move for a lady in a wheelchair, and I made my DS get up for an elderly man who was struggling, so I do teach them about others needs. But not for a bunch of adults. Why are my kids less important?

First come first served on the train. We've had to stand many times without complaining. The real issue is not putting on enough carriages on busy days/times.

So you would be quite happy to pay full fare, CarrieLouise*? Why do you think they get a half fare or free?

I think we should charge everyone full fare and then it is first come, first served.

Ah, I didn't realise I paid half fare for my children so they could stand. Now it makes sense!

There are ways to show respect without getting yourself trampled or hit in face with bags. I'd have no respect for adults who let that happen because age made them more important.

rum - old age is 'a disability' and you will know this when you get there - I assume you are under 40 and you believe you will never get infirm or crippled by arthritus/rheumatism - so good for your grandad at 80 an exception that is not mirrored across the entire age group - in fact that suggests you are probably under 30
if your attitude to the 70 + year olds who are struggling to hold on to the bar/stand up on public transport because 'older people' have pushed past you in the past (how old were they ?) is that they should not be offered a seat - you have a very selfish attitude.

I suppose I meant manners as much as respect. I don't like the 'I've got a seat so why should I think about anyone else?' attitude. My DC have been raised to assume that the world does not revolve around them. They may have just as much 'right' to a seat as an adult but it is good manners to offer it. Similarly I would offer my seat to an older person or a pregnant woman or a man or woman with a young child. But I would not give up my seat for a child or teen. Their legs are younger and fitter than mine!

I also hope that if my (now older) DC were messing about doing something stupid / annoying / dangerous and an adult intervened and told them to stop that they would heed that 'random adult'. Not just a teacher or policeman. Teens may think they know it all but lack of life experience means that they don't.

My grandparents used to talk about the days when all adults took an interest in the way children turned out, looking out for the wellbeing of all local children, not just their own. And the kids listened to adults, not just their parents. That's how my friends and I were raised and how I've tried to raise my own DC.

leaving this thread now as I am appalled by the 'ageism' and 'my kids are more important than anyone else even though they have not paid full price and are more able to stand than an older/disabled/pregnant person or small toddler'

as I stated before - this does not auger well for the upcoming generation who are already spoiled and told they are more important than anyone else.
a bit of consideration and recognition of others 'needs' would not go amiss.

twowrongs - well said.

Well maybe when adults start treating g children as people who matter then they will be listened too.

my dc are being raised to think of others as beat as I can. but dd2 is 4 clumsy and barely comes up to my hip so no, she will not be thrown about a bus to prove a point. It's rather selfish of an adult to not give a shit what happens to some little child as long as they get a seat.

If there's not much space I stand. If need be dd1 stands as she's at the point now where she can safely do so. but dd2 she's having mine and dd1s seat cos she will fall. and not having an adults size ten feet standing on hers thanks.