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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In finding it hard to believe people let their young kids take up seats on trains when adults are standing

349 replies

gatorgolf · 28/08/2015 22:54

Never get the train anymore, first time today in about 10 yrs got train to take DS to London. Train home was really really busy people standing in all the aisles as well as the doorways. We sat DS who is 5 on our knee as I thought that was the done thing when train busy. Family near us had two kids, one about the same age as DS, one slightly older maybe 6 or 7, kids had a seat each for the entire journey. I know its not comfortable to have kids on your knee for long time but its more comfortable than having to stand, there was 4 adults in there party so they could have taken the knee sitting in turns or even made the kids squeeze onto one seat to free one up.

OP posts:
LilyTucker · 29/08/2015 07:42

Grin My DC are 10 and 11

Hmm I just had this quandary on the early park and ride this week. We always sit towards the back to leave the seats at the front free for the elderly/ disabled and I get up/move my DC from any seat if a frail,very elderly person is left standing. One of my DC is dyspraxic and the other was still lacing and putting a shoe on.< don't ask>

Last week we were at the back but the bus was packed with very sprightly retirees in their 70s,several standing but I didn't move myself or my DC. My parents are in that bracket and travel all over the world. a) I thought they could be insulted and b) I figured they are perfectly capable of standing for 10 minutes.

No idea if I was right.Should we have stood up?

LilyTucker · 29/08/2015 07:42

Grin was to Whatamess

bakingaddict · 29/08/2015 07:54

It's a safety thing....I live in London and regularly use mainline trains to visit family. The tube and commuter trains are very busy and crowded. Most people in London including myself will happily give up seats for parents with young children because in the packed carriages kids have difficulty standing and keeping their balance. Also when the carriages get really full as a surge of passengers enter at each stop it's incredibly easy to get separated from standing children even if you've been right next to them. Manners doesn't enter into it, it's about making the journey easier for those less able to travel.

Regarding comments made by a pp, it's more difficult to thank a London bus driver because unlike other parts of the country where you enter and exit from one place and so pass the driver, you exit London buses in the middle away from the driver's cabin

Spartans · 29/08/2015 07:58

What makes adults so special that they must be given a seat and a child (purely because of their age) are not entitled to one.

I only ever get the train to London, I usually drive everywhere else. No way would I be sitting either child on my lap when I have paid for their ticket. My child isn't superior to other people, other people are not superior to my child either.

I don't understand why some people think children are second class citizens.

MyNightWithMaud · 29/08/2015 08:00

Err, not on all London buses. Our local service is a single decker with only one door. Anyway, we risk derailing ::geddit:: the customary MN bun fight about priorities, needs and entitlements for seats.

mollie123 · 29/08/2015 08:03

children are NOT more important than grown ups
grown ups are NOT more important than children
everyone is equal
it is down to good manners, consideration and respect for other human's vulnerabilities and needs
dare I say that people travelling with a family railcard - children travel free or cheaply should budge up and share seats if possible
anything else is down to the circumstances at the time
but in the current climate where many children are shown by adults that 'challenging others and being entitled' is the way to go - sadly this topic will never get everyone in agreement

CrohnicallyAspie · 29/08/2015 08:05

I remember travelling with a couple of other adults and DCs once (off peak, most seats taken but plenty of standing space). I left my 1 year old in the buggy since there was room, the 4 year old insisted on standing. She spent the whole journey swinging round one of the standing poles since she didn't have the strength to hold herself still. And every time we stopped or started she let go and someone had to grab her before she flew down the carriage. If it was busier she would have spent the whole journey bumping into other passengers.

Iamatotalandutteridiot · 29/08/2015 08:10

This exact thing happened to me recently..

Bought 3 first class tickets for me and DS (7, autistic) and DD (6, NT)

Half way through our journey, the train was declassified and the first class carriage became very busy.

I moved DD on my lap, and was then cuffed because I wouldn't make DS stand (so he would've been standing between my legs so actually pretty safe)

But why the hell should I!? I'd paid for 3 full price first class tickets a dim taking abuse from someone who had a standard price ticket but expected a greater degree of comfort than my children.

But, in all fairness, the chap had probably had a shitty day and the fault really lies with the train companies who sell more tickets than they provide seats for.

Iamatotalandutteridiot · 29/08/2015 08:10

Cussed! Not cuffed! Grin

MTWTFSS · 29/08/2015 08:11

YABU!

I believe a child approximately 4/5 years old (obviously some children are smaller/bigger) should have their own seat. We went on the underground lately and DS2 (2 years old) sat on our lap, whereas DS1 (4.5 years old) had his own seat.

NotSoDesperateHousewife · 29/08/2015 08:17

My kids are more important than you. Simples.

Iamatotalandutteridiot · 29/08/2015 08:18

Mind you, I once got on a train at 9am with two kids, a double buggy a dog and a suitcase. Took up half the carriage Grin wasn't the most popular person on that train!

Gileswithachainsaw · 29/08/2015 08:21

I want to know if the ones saying yanbu are also the ones who Bury their heads in their iphones the second anyone gets on so they don't see it or catch anyone's eye.

dd1 is just about big enough to stand if it's not too busy it's a short journey but people have always been kind and given my dcs a seat. If anyone stands I do. And I have done and will continue to give my seat if I have one to small children. watching them go flying is not fun. plenty of yikes oj the bus I've had my foot run over or had someone stand or put their walking stick on my foot or been pushed so my head hits the pole behind me. A small child could easily be squished unnoticed between adults. dd2 is just getting too bug now to put on my lap without it being painful hot and sweaty fir both of us. I used to have 150 pounds of bus tickets on me at all times so my kids can have half a seat each if I stand thanks.

and on trains people can remove their bags and feet from seats before glaring at small children.

bakingaddict · 29/08/2015 08:22

I don't see why travelling on a family railcard should mean that you have to give up seats.

I've bought a ticket in the exact same way as every other passenger, whether some are offered with a discount or not is not down to me but the train operator but my discounted ticket is as valid for a seat as a full paying ticket

Amummyatlast · 29/08/2015 08:22

Some people are saying children should stand or sit on a knee since they pay a reduced or no fare. Does the same apply to pensioners since they get free bus travel?

peaz · 29/08/2015 08:30

For the poster who said that they have a hidden disability, I don't see what the point is. If I get on a train (without kids) and I see someone with a visable disability then I would give them the seat. I wouldn't see someone with a hidden disability so how would I know if they are in need of a seat unless this was brought to my attention? So if my child was sitting in a seat how is that different to an adult? And how do you know the child in that seat doesn't have a disability?

I have a three year old how, like another posters child above, will slap, scratch, bite me if I got him on my lap. He would lash out and more than likely hit the person next to me (accidentally, whilst hitting me). My 7 year old is too heavy to sit on my lap. I would give my seat up, no question, but I wouldn't ask my children to. I'd gauge the situation though, and may get them to squish up but my 3 year old throws the biggest tantrums that will be impossible to control on a packed train.

JustMeOverHere · 29/08/2015 08:32

I always thought that the ticket was for the journey and did not guarantee you a seat.

Penfold007 · 29/08/2015 08:34

Train regulations say that under fives travel free and are only 'allowed' a seat if no fare paying(5+) passengers requests it. I wouldn't expect any fare paying passenger to give up their seat for me.
Interesting comment re pensioners travelling for free. TFL give over 60s free travel on buses, tubes, trains and trams.

MyNightWithMaud · 29/08/2015 08:38

Yep, having bought a ticket is a red herring, because the ticket is for travel but not a guarantee of a seat.

Free travel for pensioners (or school age children) in London does not include mainline rail services, which are not provided by TfL.

Iamatotalandutteridiot · 29/08/2015 08:41

Peas. My point is I need to allow DS extra space simply because he has a hidden disability, which is why I ALWAYS buy first class tickets.

Just like I'd never take DS on the tube, I would never knowingly put DS in a busy environment and I certainly don't like being put in that situation by the train company!

queenrollo · 29/08/2015 08:42

we buy a ticket for Ds (2.5) because he is a screaming nightmare if he doesn't have his own seat. It wouldn't be my choice to take him on the train but he has hospital appointments to attend so we have no choice.
We have on occasion put him on our lap when it's been very busy, and it has just made the journey for us and everyone around us stressful.

queenrollo · 29/08/2015 08:45

the ticket is for travel yes....we pay extra for seat reservations though..

bakingaddict · 29/08/2015 08:47

It's the people like the OP who come into London for a day visit once a year, who get full of righteous anger when kids are given more consideration on the tube or trains who get my ire.

I don't expect anybody to compromise their child's safety on the tube or train just for my comfort and if I am travelling further distances I book and reserve train seats in advance so i'm less likely to be stuck without a seat.

Twowrongsdontmakearight · 29/08/2015 09:01

I think there's a difference between long distance journeys like Leeds to London where seats can be booked and normal 'around town' trips.

If you've booked a seat for you and DC and adults haven't then that's their problem. It's a long journey for a DC to stand just because an adult hasn't bothered.

For local buses etc I was brought up that you stood for adults. It was a respect thing. At school we also stood when an adult entered the classroom. So IMO a child 10 or over is perfectly capable of standing so should give up a seat for an adult.

mollie123 · 29/08/2015 09:10

notso
My kids are more important than you. Simples.
this is why respect and consideration have gone out of the window
really Shock I hope I never encounter your attitude when travelling
fwiw - pensioners pay the same fare as anyone else - only in the 'blessed' London do they get 'free train and tube travel'

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