In finding it hard to believe people let their young kids take up seats on trains when adults are standing

[gatorgolf]

Never get the train anymore, first time today in about 10 yrs got train to take DS to London. Train home was really really busy people standing in all the aisles as well as the doorways. We sat DS who is 5 on our knee as I thought that was the done thing when train busy. Family near us had two kids, one about the same age as DS, one slightly older maybe 6 or 7, kids had a seat each for the entire journey. I know its not comfortable to have kids on your knee for long time but its more comfortable than having to stand, there was 4 adults in there party so they could have taken the knee sitting in turns or even made the kids squeeze onto one seat to free one up.

Or be crushed.

Children may be more likely to fall than adults but I would that the consequences would be less serious - children's bones break less easily and they do say that the bigger they are the harder they fall.

I was brought up to give up my seat, even though my sense of balance was not 100% and used to quite enjoy standing on buses (always holding onto something). Problem is I've now got back trouble and am scared to ask people to let me sit down.

IMO individuals who are able to stand should offer their seat irrespective of age. I also think that small children should share seats when buses or trains become crowded but lets bear in mind that thus is sometimes impractical due to SN.

rumtum the signs on the buses where I live say "priority seat for disabled, pregnant or less able to stand". This is fairly standard. Yes people cannot be forced to give up their seat much the same as they cannot be forced to vacate the wheelchaur space but anyone who can and does not is a total prick extremely badly brought up.

Children's bones do not break less easily. They are actually more vulnerable to different fractures as their bones are still growing.

Just about sums it up doesn't it.

"tough crap your mum's got a baby on her lap so piss off the seat as your mum shouldn't even be on the bus if she can't put you both on her lap, as you have less distance to fall, your bones won't break easily and I'm over 18 damn it"

oh how lovely people are

Also, it's thanks to the women who decide to procreate that we will have people around in our old age. To drive the buses, care for our health, sell us stuff in shops, make sure we have running water and electricity and so on.
I'm all for encouraging procreation. Even though I've just had one child.

Pff, my friend sat on my lap on the train once, and we're both nearer 30 than 20! But yes, I can't see why kids can't sit on laps :)

Of course they can sit on laps. But they should also be able to sit on seats. (Unless someone who is more vulnerable needs it, and even so, if no healthy adults are around to give up their seats)

Oh for god's sake Giles, hyperbolic much? Of course I don't enjoy watching kids fall on their faces, I wasn't even referring to that. I was referring to Lweji's ridiculous notion that pregnant women should have the "right to sit". Um, no.

It looks like my ridiculous notions are shared by (at least some) transport companies. Certainly in the country I live in.
Because it's ridiculous that someone heavily pregnant might need a seat.
Oh well. Glad most people aren't nasty to pregnant women. Or young children.

And as you are so concerned about rules: tfl.gov.uk/transport-accessibility/pregnant-women-and-pushchairs
Ridiculous and snowflakey tfl.

ds(7) has started to offer his seat and yes I do make him stand up for adults now or he sits on my lap. he has often been offered a seat when we have both been standing but less so as he gets older

he has been knocked with a bag, fallen slightly which he though was great fun and does not moan about it and turns it into a balancing game

really teaching children to be so precious is ridiculous i am sure more on here are arguing for arguments sake than really feel their able bodied children who are not poorly are able to stand for a short while on a train

There are different circumstances.
Do I ask for a seat for ds (or ever had)? No
Do I give up my seat (I prefer standing to having ds on lap) or tell ds to do it for someone less able to stand? Yes.
Do I tell ds to get up, put him on my lap or do I get up myself for an able bodied adult/young person? No
Do I prefer ds to be seated and keep him seated if the bus/train is so full that it's less safe for him to stand when people push to get in? Yes. - if not possible to sit, then I protect him with my body and don't complain if you push and go against a sharp elbow.

Do I expect other parents to do the same? Yes.

Oh, do grow up Lweji.

Campaigning for the "right" to sit? Utterly ridiculous. That doesn't mean I don't think pregnant women should be able to sit if there's room and nobody else needs the seat more than them, but your hyperbolic choice of words is ludicrous. Why do you think you should be given "rights" that other people don't have just because you chose to get yourself up the duff? (you general, not you specific).

Even disabled people don't have the "right" to sit (I should know, I am one, and you can't turf people out of the priority seat if they happen to be occupying it). Why do you think pregnant women should have the "right", when someone with a clearly greater (and not self-inflicted) need does not?

Thank you for the sanctimonious link, but unfortunately for you none of it states that pregnant women take priority over anyone else purely because they chose to be pregnant. I bet you'd wear one of those silly "baby on board" badges too, wouldn't you. Like the rest of the world is supposed to go nuts over your reproductive choices.

All it needs is for people to think of others. If you can see someone standing who finds it more difficult than you then you give them a seat- if this means sitting your child on your knee then you do it.
I am over 60yrs- quite fit and able to stand so I would give up my seat for a disabled person, a frail elderly person, a pregnant woman, or a person with a baby or toddler. I would be a bit miffed if it had to be me when all the children, on half fare, hadn't been taught by their parents to think of others.
I have been pleasantly heartened when with my mother, who clearly can't stand, that she is always given a seat by someone.

The 'right to sit' is just silly!

I remember the time that I really needed a seat was when I was newly pregnant and no one could tell that I was- so I can't see how you deal with that.

I shall know that I am old when I get offered seats - so am pleased that I haven't been up to now!

I bet you'd wear one of those silly "baby on board" badges too, wouldn't you. Like the rest of the world is supposed to go nuts over your reproductive choices.

Wow, I can't believe some people think pregnant women should have to stand up on a crowded train... unbelievable. Perhaps you're one of the ignorant twats who didn't give their seat up for me on trains when I was heavily pregnant.

I don't expect people to go nuts over my "reproductive choices" when I'm pregnant, but I do expect an able bodied person to be decent and give up their seat if they noice, it's very uncomfortable and nauseating being thrown around on a moving train with a 7lb baby bouncing around in your lower abdomen, not to mention the fact that falls can be really dangerous for pregnant women and their unborn babies.

You do know that pregnant bodies are not just fat bodies right? That your biology totally changes while pregnant including muscles separating and weakening...?

Why the fuck do you think I should give up my seat for you just because you CHOSE to have a baby?

No, I am not an "ignorant twat" - I actually have more "right" to a priority seat than you do - not that anyone has "rights" to sit, what a ridiculous notion - so no, sorry, I won't be giving up my seat for someone who chooses to be in that condition. And don't talk to me about weak muscles.

Obviously don't give up your seat for a pregnant woman if you need it more than they do! No-ones saying someone with health issues should give their seat up, so obvious it goes without saying.

But a fit, able bodied adult should certainly do so, it's the decent thing to do. It's not about "rights", but about politeness, kindness and empathy.

I'm sorry if you're disabled, but you can ask for seats in the priority seating and most people will give you one if they can. Most people will give you a seat elsewhere if you do need it. I do see it all the time and do it.
I'd support your right to sit too given your disability. I hope that doesn't make me and others who'd give you a seat special snowflakes or sanctimonious.
Not sure why you get so aggravated and find the need to be so aggressive. It's not you (disabled) vs them (children or pregnant women). It should be about protecting and easing the life of all that are more vulnerable. As is recognised by people who are in charge and by most that use public transport.

Mumushka - exactly, it's not about "rights". But Lweji wants pregnant women to have the "right to sit". That's ridiculous. Rights are for things that are actually important - y'know, gender equality, gay rights, not torturing people, etc etc - not for people who chose to put themselves in a situation to suddenly start acting like special snowflakes because they can't find a seat on a bus and it might be a bit difficult for ten minutes.

As someone with a disability, I don't even think that I should have the "right" to sit. It's an utterly ludicrous concept.

For the record, I have given my seat to countless pregnant women in the past. Or frail elderly people, or those who are less able to stand. What I object to is one sector of society metaphorically waving banners and shouting "I should have the right to this seat!", like Lweji did above. Why, exactly, do you think you have a right to have public transport cater to your exact requirements?

No, you're not more deserving than anyone else just because you're pregnant, or have children. You also chose to be in that condition. If the mode of transport does not suit your exact requirements, take another one. Nobody is forcing you to get on it.

twowrongs tricky just about sums it up

Dd1 is 11 now, and over 5ft, and so discrete is not really part of our lives . The buggy in not as obviously a wheelchair as it could be, though - looks like a giant 3 wheeler, and if it has dd2 and Ds squished in, then I think many people assume I'm being precious (and that dd2 is over indulged and stealing a ride in her brothers mahoosive pram!). Dd1's behaviour soon puts a stop to any thoughts of is not needing a seat though!

I have to say that this summer I have been very pleasantly surprised when travelling on trains/tube. We have gone up to London most weekends (taking full advantage of the kids go free theatre tickets!) and I don't think there has been a single journey where people haven't offered is a seat, even when dd1's behaviour hasn't flagged up severe SN immediately. Mostly, people have taken one looked and instantly got up so that the children can sit down. A couple of times I have steered dd1 towards the seat instead of (small for her age) dd2, and then someone else has got up to give dd2 a seat as well (she's 8, but the size of a 6 year old).

Overall, the impression I have is that more people are offering seats to (my) Cherenkov than when the girls were small - or maybe I just looked more haggard and stressed now that I have 3 dc, and so obviously more in need of the journey going smoothly!

Grr, stupid phone autocorrect! Discreet (I really do know the difference!)

Many other errors also, I expect - combination of autocorrect and fat fingers!