To have a baby I can't afford

[butteredtoastandjam]

Because if I wait until I can afford it I will never have one but I can't help but wonder if it's right? Has anyone ever done this?

Yes, but I'd only be working for a couple of hours Saturday/Sunday. I think a seventeen year old could sit in with a sleeping baby for a bit.

Wouldn't get more than SMP in my field really :) it isn't famed for decent pay!

Op forget the finances for a moment. The most important things a child needs is to be loved and cared for, Shelter, food and water.
You have shelter, it may not be a mansion but it is better than a cave.
You will feed and clothe your child, you will provide water.
Will you love them unconditionally and support them in their endeavors? If the answer is yes then go for it. Everything else is window dressing.

I think having responsibility for a child and as you say you don't have any help, you will be 24/7 carer for that child for many years.

It is bloody hard even if the child has no developmental or health problems, not being able to switch off and relax is very, very hard.

Read posts on Lone Parents forum, see how many of them are exhausted even without having to work full time to support yourself.
I have no doubt that financially you can pull it off but emotional aspect of it is hard to imagine if you never had to be a sole carer of anyone.

We had nothing as kids ... werent even that warm! I still appreciate the heating on at bathtime - streaking naked kids - when we sat shivering by the fire ... im here, mom loved us, and we had more than most in our class. ... oh and no father to speak of either

Op - a 17 year old could sit with a baby for a few hours. But you will generally find that after a while they don't want to/ can't do it. And possibly a bit unreliable.

Tbh it doesn't sound like you do want a baby that much. You love your job and even though it's really the job that's making it difficult you don't want to leave. You don't want to study to try and progress to put yourself in a better financial position, either.

There is nothing wrong with not having kids. But I think really you only are feeling like this because your friend is pg and if she wasn't you would be still ok with not having them.

Look go ahead and have a baby but to be realistic it is highly unlikely you will find that your current job will continue to work out. Arranging childcare is a nightmare.mteenagers are notoriously unreliable...get a better offer and they bin you. ok for occasional babysitting but not for childcare while you work. Like it or not you could easily find yourself surviving on benefits.

Nobody will blame you for not appreciating just how hard it is to be a parent especially one on a very low income and no support. It would be very, very tough. But plenty do it.

Do your sums and research. Try to move to a bigger property. Then think again.

Good luck.

OP - don't plan childcare around a non-mobile 1 year old, plan childcare around having a fast and tantruming 2 year old!

Op I've just done some quick research and it seems that you should expect to pay a minimum of £6 an hour for a baby sitter (and 17 year old neighbours were specifically mentioned at that price!). You earn £8 an hour at the weekend so if I were you I would plan try to avoid working the Saturday & Sunday shifts if you do have a child. You wouldn't even keep £2 an hour of your pay because the sitter would be working longer hours than you to account for your journeys to and from work.

The website I looked at also assumed the seventeen year old neighbour would be baby sitting older children and that a more experienced/qualified and therefore expensive person would be caring for a baby. I accept that website specialises in childcare so would have a vested interest in promoting the use of trained child care.

"I don't want to sound haughty but the fact is I am working, I'm not in any way shape or form reliant on benefits (and never have been) yet I'm being told off like a naughty child for not wanting to help myself? Why is that?"

My parents received child benefit until I was 19. I had state education, I rely on the NHS and at times I've claimed JSA and housing benefit. I have no problem with the idea that I depend on the existence of the state. We all do. I pay into it in various ways, partly through taxes but also other contributions that I make, if you like "being a good citizen".

So if people are commenting on you not helping yourself, it isn't to do with you claiming benefits. It's the fact that when people make suggestions, you tend to stamp them down.

Being practical, you will have to make some changes. You don't want to train, well fine, but it does seem that you will need to change to a job with more regular hours. If you really don't want to do this then I think you need to weigh up how much you want a child. I speak as someone who's been through that stage. In some ways I was worse off than you - I certainly didn't own a house outright. In some ways I was better off - I have the potential to earn £30k+ pa. And in yet other ways I was about the same - no partner, not a great deal of local family support. I came to realise that actually whilst I might want a child a bit, I didn't want one enough to make the necessary changes. Do I regret this? Yes, a bit. However, I have a good life right now, and I'm glad of that.

You're ideas on childcare suggest you really don't grasp the enormity of trying to work full-time with a child and as a lone parent. (I'm not trying to be mean there. I didn't have a clue before having DD1 either. Childcare is a minefield. ).

Regardless of whether a baby is sleeping (& believe me, you have very, very little say whether they will conveniently sleep when you need them to), I would never leave a baby/toddler in the care of an inexperienced teenager--it's far too much responsibility when they're under the age of 3. It's different if we're talking about an 18 year old with some childcare experience. Childcare is the last thing to scrimp on.

Having good quality, reliable childcare is the absolute most basic requirement. Without it, you cannot work.

Sorry, I should have added that where I am, full time care for an under 3 year old is around £180 per week. I am in a very cheap part of the country. (I'm it sure of the current situation with regard to childcare vouchers.) . If you're trying to figure out a realistic budget, at the very least look at some local nurseries or childminders. That's before you figure out evening/weekend care. I could see that pushing the cost up at least 30%.

At the end of the day, if you really want a baby, go for it. I'm just trying to point out that there's a massive flaw in your planning & if you want to base a decision on budgetary constraints, you need to include a realistic cost of care.

Having a baby allows you to meet and befriend lots of other mums through ante natal, baby groups and classes. You will soon have a new bunch of friends and opportunities to share babysitting. You might well make friends in a similar situation to yourself and can help each other. The benefits are mutual. Someone from my ante natal group actually did a childminding course and made the safety adaptions to her home so that she could stay at home with her children and earn money at the same time. In the end her employer arranged for her to work from home but I'm just saying you face the same options challenges that everyone else faces and you muddle through somehow.
Please don't think that not being rich will cause your child to grow up with resentments. Children need you to spend time with them, not money

if you want a child then have one. you are thinking you cant afford one, but you probably can as once they are here you kind of adapt. babies are not really that expensive. they require time more than money. remember that low earners are entitle to tax credits and other benefits. child benefit of 80 a month for 1 child.. if your earnings are under 24k a year for 1 child then tax credits make it up. you would probably then also be entitled to free child care and housing benefits. so technically you would be able to afford it, as once the child is born you become entitled. ive found iin my circle, that those who struggle most are those that both parents work and earn just over the low earning bracket for benefit entitentitlement. they dont receive any benefit other than the standard child benefit of 20 pounds a week. have to papay all their own bills, rent/council tax/childcare/dentists/prescriptions etc. we earn over the bracket so are worse off than our friend who is a single parent of 2. that is her choice and this is mine. I have chosen to have kids and work nights all weekend to support them. whatever you choose is your choice. dont put off having a child forever if its what you want because before you know it, itll be too late.

O.k.. working 06.30 (A.M.?) till 21.00 (9 PM) it's really not a good idea to be thinking of having a baby...

As an LP of going on 25 years, trust me.

Sounds more like your needs than the baby's/toddlers/child's/teenage years/going on to adult....

The only way to decide you could have a child is to know you could do it by yourself. Cos you never know what life throws at you.

What you think is a support system could fall by the wayside tomorrow. And they (family) need you too to help out too with them. Very selfish to think everyone is going to step up to the your plate.

What exactly is it that you do? Are on a permanent contract or zero hours?

It seems with the shift work, no DP, no support other than paid babysitting, you would find this very difficult.

How much do you have left after bills now?

I think also when PP suggest qualifications, they don't necessarily mean a degree. Have a look at other job openings in your area. What are they? Which are stable office hours, how much are they paying? What experience do you have that could translate into one?

You say you're not good at maths, me neither, and I report/manage budgets on multi-millions of dollars on projects and have no qualifications. it is in fact, not rocket science!

However if i were in your position, I would be looking at a secretarial/pa course or even paralegal. Classes at night before baby gets here. A years training, get an office job with stable hours. Job in law firm, train as paralegal while working there. Many other options you can look in to.

1 bed flat not a problem for now and if you can improve your income, by the time you have a 5yo, you could be in a 2 bed.

OP "I worry really regretting not having a child."

I think we live in a very strange culture, that expression about regretting what you didn't do really gets on my nerves.

if you want a child, I believe it should be 100% wanted. There's a thread going on somewhere - no idea where, sorry - with people asking if any older posters have regretted it and so far no one has except those who really wanted one initially.

I appreciate you might be in that camp, but really think about it. As you've raised "right reasons" yourself, I wonder if it's just very raw right now with your friend?

I have had times when I've looked at my life and wondered if something ought to change, purely because of someone else getting something I really wanted. But then I think about all the hard work and effort I'd have to put in and then I think realistically, IS that what I want? It's easy to look at stuff and think you want it superficially without fully realising the hard work that goes with having it.

It sounds like you don't want a baby specifically OP. It sounds more like you want the life you didn't get maybe? Partner, better home/work life, child.

Yanbu to want a child, but I think you should be very careful what you wish for and do. I'm a lone parent. Being pregnant alone is hard work and can be sad and lonely. Having a baby and caring for them alone is very hard work, completely exhausting and quite depressing.

If you have parents or very reliable friends who are willing and able to commit to helping you very regularly then that would be good. I don't have family help but I do have a regular hours job that pays fairly well so I can support my dc and I have a fantastic childminder, who is expensive but worth it. If I couldn't afford to support my dc and have great childcare, as well as having no partner then I think I'd really struggle as a lone parent. I'm being honest, it's very hard work and you become utterly devoted to your dc whilst having no time for yourself.

In your position id be going all out to meet a partner, then see if the partner would like dc too. That way even if you ended up as a lone parent then there'd be a dad around to help and support the dc.

For clarity: I believe completely that the choice to have a child is an important right. I believe we should have an economic and social welfare system which enables people in all financial brackets to have children. On a personal basis I'd pay more tax to enable that.

We should all be doing everything we can to support that - those employed or not employed, those with children, or without, those who are young and those who are old.

However... we are not in that situation now. Look at how terribly the support mechanisms (tax credits, child benefit etc) have changed over the past few years. Read the anguished posts on here from mums who are hit hard by the most recent round of changes. Listen to the fear and the desperation. So how on earth can people blithely post 'go ahead' or 'children are not that expensive' ?

Children ARE expensive - not of themselves, but because a working person has to stop working to care for them. It feels intolerable to have a tiny, dependent and much loved child, and to have no idea how you are going to going to feed them this week, or next week. Or how you are going to keep them warm. Or how you will ever get out of this hell.

The OP may be able to make all this work for her. But it is not something to go into lightly.

Can your partner not support you and baby? Because your only reasonable alternative is sperm donation which is an additional cost. You haven't been clear on where you will get this baby?

I think it is your responsibility to bring a child into a stable family life, emotionally stable and financially stable. If you can't afford it, then yes, you are being unreasonable to plan a child you cannot pay for. It is up to you to put things in place so you can afford it. That is called parenting.

Scrap my post, I just realised there is 6 more pages which doubtless have more info and discussion I have missed.

OP, you say you haven't got the ability to get qualifications/progress. The fact you are mortgage free at 35 indicates that you have some acumen. You may have inherited when younger or something - but many people might have spunked that without regard for the future.

I'll agree with a previous poster and your proposed childcare arrangements - relying on teenagers to babysit would be a minefield. I think you should focus on a job with regular hours where a proper nursery can look after your hypothetical little one.

Best of luck with whatever you decide, you have a lot of options open to you.

You can't assume that you can leave a sleeping baby with a teenager for a couple hours as your childcare solution.

If you want to do this then your job needs to fit around paid childcare. If you don't want to change your job to enable this then I think you have your answe.

Well actually my question is how much do you actually like being with children? I think the finances are the least of your worries and I doubt that children need or particularly appreciate holidays abroad. In fact a little bit of poverty is good for the soul.

As a parent you really want to give your child everything, so it is brilliant sometimes that you can't.

It has taken until 21 months until my DD has reliably slept all evening for a babysitter.