DH refuses to have summer baby

[MayAugust]

We started trying for a baby in May. I got pregnant first cycle, then miscarried at six weeks. I didn't get pregnant in either of the two cycles following the miscarriage (I just got my period today).

DH has always said that he doesn't want to have a summer baby because apparently all the kids in his class who were born in the summer didn't do as well academically as those with birthdays earlier in the year. He says there are studies which back this up (I don't know if that's true).

So now he is refusing to try for a baby until January 2016, when the due date would be September onwards.

He keeps saying that he has always been really clear that this is how he feels and that he doesn't want to have a summer baby. This is true. But I think he is being unreasonable. Aside from the fact that his reasoning is completely ridiculous in my opinion, I just don't want to waste all that time given what we've been through so far.

No argument will convince him. I've tried pointing out all the people we know who are born in the summer months and are very successful, or explaining that actually sometimes babies are born several weeks or even months before they are due, or that we might have a child with special needs, or a child that's just not academic whatever month they're born.

Who is being unreasonable?

My DS will be 6 in 3 weeks and we have just received a party invitation from a girl in his class who will be 7 just four days later.
It seems like a massive difference - and it is. She is much more advanced than he is, and so are several other autumn borns.
But my little summer boy got 35 in his recent year 1 phonics test and he's happy and loves school. He has loads of friends and if he falls behind some of his (older) peers, I'm confident he'll catch up.
I was sad that I missed time with him, as he started school when he was just 4, but that "extra" year did him the world of good.
I'm not giving you an anecdote. I just think that even if there is a greater liklihood of summer borns being a bit behind - it just doesn't seem to matter.
We work together on his school work and he loves going. Plus we get the advantage that he's always off on his birthday.

Actually, from a different point of view, I've got an autumn birthday and my over-riding memory of primary school is being bored (I actually skipped a year in primary school then had to repeat year 6 because I wasn't allowed to start secondary school a year early. YAWN). Plus I was very aware that I supposedly had an 'advantage' because of my early September birthday and felt like everything I achieved was because of that. I was always very envious of the summer birthdays in my class who were all seen as clever instead of just lucky!

I don't get his logic. . Try as you might. You can't control these things. He could decide to go back to trying but then you may not get pregnant untill January, or it could swing the other way, you could use contraception and it fails. You get pregnant next week and end up with a summer baby In any case.

I really didn't want a summer born baby. Mainly because my best friend was and she used to get fed up of people doing so many things first, ages before her.

Turning 16, learning to drive, turning 18.

But after 18 months of trying with no success I couldn't care less. Dd was born in July. She is actually one of the top in her class. I have a ds who was March born, dd was far in front of where he is now, academically. Ds is far more advanced with physical skills. He is very sporty, where dd wasn't.

However neither is more precious or loved more. Neither have been damaged by not being autumn babies.

I think he is being unreasonable, but you did know he felt very strongly about it. I also understand that after mc you think it shouldn't matter, but it onbviously does to him.

Just to be trivial, summer birthdays are great for sunny parties outdoors! DS had his 7th sunny birthday in a row yesterday, it was lovely. But yes he did struggle emotionally when he started school at just four, although academically he did fine. Here in Wales the policy is very much 'stage not age' which helped. I think he's pretty much caught up now (although those nearly 8 year old girls in his class do sometimes seem like a different species!)

Totally depends I the child.

dS1 Dec born could really have done with being in the year above.

Ds2 is august born starting in September, he looks little but can read very well so I think he will be fine.

I was July born and I was never aware if it or felt like the youngest.

My son had his 15th birthday two days ago. There are handful of things I would change about having him.

One I would have gone straight for a C-section (and avoided the "no pain relief policy" hospital like the plague).

Two I would have preferred not to be hugely pregnant/giving birth/taking a new baby (prone to turning bright red when hot) home and learning to be a parent during the hottest part of the year.

Three I would have moved his birthday to at least the September cut off point for English year groups.

Although we don't live in the UK we do stick the English ed. system. As soon as we put him back a year he went from struggling badly to flourishing. It worked wonders for his confidence. He became quite competitive and put in so much more effort because he could succeed. I think the possibility of doing well meant he felt it was worth going the extra mile. His marks went from scraping a pass to excellent. He was keenly aware of being one of the oldest and possibly that is why he went after the challenge of extra recognition on top. For example having his work picked for the student showcase based on the extra effort put into it stimulated interest in subjects he had been somewhat ambivalent about before.

This has had a knock on effect on his general outlook on life. He is with his peer group for his sport and he is one of the youngest. The rest of the team have been playing for years, my son since last December. He took the grit and willingness to apply himself that he developed at school and has trained in his own time to catch up. He is now the second best in his squad. He is also the only member who has been promoted to play in the adult division as well as the under division. (He got the email informing him on his birthday... which overshadowed our gift by about a zillion miles). Inspirational sportsperson quotes litter our home. He picked them and they share a theme, most go something like this...

"Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard"

He is just one child. So the above will tell you about my one child rather than paint a picture of all August born babies (just like all the anecdotes about successful August born children who are doing fine/really well will). But watching him go from "why bother, I don't get it however hard I try and everything I produce lingers at the bottom of the scale" to "bother, then bother some more, being the best doesn't count unless I did my best" after changing his year group.... suggests at least one of the possible reasons why some studies show that an August born disadvantage can linger a lifetime. Perhaps some small people find it hard to muster up determination when loads of effort fails to make a really significant difference in terms of outcome. A developing self image as being somebody who is doomed to be a failure/mediocre when doing their absolute best may play a part in the mix.

So, having been a parent who didn't win the "my August born is doing just fine" lottery, I do understand where your husband is coming from. I can't tell you if always having been one of the oldest would have had the same outcomes. Maybe he would have coasted and his grit and motivation has come exclusively from the struggles he had before, when in his correct year group. However if we had not had the opportunity to change year groups I don't doubt that being August born would have been a longer term disadvantage for him.

I would not have chosen that for him. Life is hard enough. Few have zero roadblocks thrown in their way over a lifetime. If I could do it again I wouldn't have picked a known one for him with my fingers crossed that he would be one of the summer born kids who did well anyway, despite being one of the youngest.

I've just seen this post...

Yesterday it was confirmed by the DfE that parents in England will have the right to start their Summer born children in Reception rather than year 1 at Compulsory School Age, which is the term after they turn 5 - so your dh needn't worry. Have a look at the Summer born campaign (on facebook - Flexible School Admission for Summer Borns).

If they have replaced a hard admission line with a soft one, then the summer born issue in terms of education is likely to become less of an issue. You can base when your future child starts school on the child you actually have, rather than a hypothetical one. That has got to make life much easier if you have a child who could really use another year to develop before being faced with a certain level of work.

I avoided the summer mainly because I was always sorry for my classmates who had birthdays in the middle of exam times or during the long holidays when many of their friends were away and unable to go to parties.

Some more anecdotal evidence here but my friend is a reception class teacher (has been for 15 years) and she says she finds April, May and June born children struggle more than July and August born children. Also boys struggle more than girls.

As I say its purely anecdotal.

Also same friend thinks that allowing July / Aug born kids to defer will just shift the problem as some kids are always going to be 'young' depending on cut off date.

Does you DH not understand that the month of birth means bugger all and what you as parents put into your child - extra curricular activities, reading with them every day, doing home work, pushing them just enough to progress but not so much that they shut down is what helps children be successful?

Is he hoping that by producing offspring early in the school year he doesn't have to try as hard with them to be smart?

Education begins at home and what he (and you) put into that child far outweighs the month they were born.

To add my DS was born the very last week of summer term. He does have SEN/SN. Through reception -yr 2 he was behind. Lower group of the entire class due to taking a lot longer to pick up the basics (reading/grammar/basic maths principles) now he is flying ahead. Exceptional with maths, reading novels, writing is still a little weak but that will come.

bettyberry

There is lots of literature available about summer born children and their educational outcomes. This is just one It seems that all political flavours are critical of them from time to time and have accused them of bias, so (albeit with a very brief glance for cherry picking tendencies) they don't appear to be obviously slanted. But there are loads of other sources if that one does not appeal.

If your theory is correct, that skilled, parental involvement is the single key difference and birthdate is of no consequence, it would suggest there is an odd glut of "lesser" parents when birth occurs in the summer months.

However, which sounds more reasonable a conclusion-

1. Being as much as a year younger than the oldest children in the class can have an impact on comprehension of concepts and the ability to acquire skills due to a lack of developmental readiness.

2. People who are unable, or unwilling to engage skillfully and appropriately with their child's education and development tend to cluster around birth dates in the summer.

3. Children born in the summer are more likely to have SEN than September born children*

* see pic, taken from the document I linked to

I was an October baby and started school at 3! No problems academically. Even got a first in Uni. Any child can struggle but it depends on the personality more than the age I think. (Though if young and not confident/interested in work its a double whammy).

Atomik The point I was making was parenting and putting a lot into your child is a bigger factor in education and success of a child regardless of ability or additional needs.

You could go and look at the new research about which illnesses seem to cluster around birth months too. There are studies that show sept/oct/nov born children are at higher risk of certain diseases with most peaking in oct. ADHD is more likely to be seen in nov babies. Funnily enough summer babies will be least likely to suffer some of the diseases mentioned.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/how-your-birth-month-affects-what-disease-youll-get-10310792.html

time.com/3913118/birth-month-disease-risk/

There is so much that impacts on a child's development and their abilities. Including the overall ages of the children in the class. If the majority of children are born in the latter half of the year (mar-aug) that will have an impact on their abilities and vice versa. Not to mention luck, contacts and all kinds of other factors that will either hamper or help a child's success in later life.

Parent attitude to success and learning will have a major impact. Books in the home. Access to resources needed to learn. Just having a library card/computer/internet access/ freedom to ask questions and a parent answering them! There are so so many studies that show these are also very important.

on books in the home - 'The advantage to a child was just as great as being raised by university educated parents, as opposed to those with relatively poor schooling, the study found.'

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7750167/Books-in-the-home-boost-childrens-education.html

The parents ages will also increase the likelihood of SEN/SN/autism etc. There are many studies available into both maternal/paternal age and risk factors of specific problems. I'm not even sure if this was factored in to the studies into summer born babies. I cannot find a reference to parental age or the parental age gap. A study showed Autism was more likely in teenage mothers, older mothers, children with fathers over 50 and couples with big age gaps.

The key in all these studies it 'more likely' Its not a guarantee and shouldn't put anyone off having a child.

It just seems really silly to put off TTC because you don't want a child born in a particular month. The OPs husband is basing it on anecdotal evidence of when he was at school.

I have also been where the OP is. I MC 6 times 2 of those just before I conceived DS. You cannot plan these things. Anything could happen. My DS has a chromosome deletion. Waiting until a specific month will not stop anything like that happening. Even if you did plan a sept born baby you could go into early labour and end up with a july/aug born baby anyway.

Again I just think its silly. If you want a baby go for it. Have one and in the OP's case I'd be miffed too esp as ttc can be a long haul and none of us are getting any younger. Ditching 5 months of the year for ttc is just plain daft.

One of my DCs was born right at the end of August. When she grew up she told me she thought the timing was ace because she was off to university at 17, had graduated at 20 and her PhD was done and dusted at 23 while her older former classmates were still slogging away

Atomik, what that paper actually suggests as far as I can tell is not that children born in the summer are more likely to have special needs but that they are more likely to be identified as having special needs. A fourth possibility is that immaturity is being mistaken for SEN by teachers. If your "ideal pupil" is a September-born girl, it's easy to see where a child a year younger might fall short.

What I find more worrying from your snippet is the enormous disparity between August-born boys and girls in the identification. Surely, if birth month were the main factor in these supposed SEN, then boys born in August would be equally likely as girls to be identified as having them?? To me, this again suggests that SEN is being diagnosed when teachers perceive a divergence between expectation and actual performance and behaviour. Ie, the child in front of them is simply not a September-born girl, ergo they are defective, with some allowances being made for boys, in whom immaturity is often more socially acceptable.

I was born in august and an only child. Oddly neither of these things have bothered me a jot! Some seem to think they should.

My ds was born in october. He took 4 years to conceive. I am lucky to have him and didn't even think about where he would fall in the school year.

Sorry for your loss OP. I think your DH is being unreasonable.

The point I was making was parenting and putting a lot into your child is a bigger factor in education and success of a child regardless of ability or additional need

That's a bit different from the statement I was responding to. There was no comparative. It was far more black and white. You said....

Does you DH not understand that the month of birth means bugger all and what you as parents put into your child - extra curricular activities, reading with them every day, doing home work, pushing them just enough to progress but not so much that they shut down is what helps children be successful?

If your (original) opinion is accurate, in that the month of birth is an irrelevance and the parents' performance is the key factor...the difference in being sucessful between September babies and summer borns must be related to parental performance, no ?

I don't disagree with you that parenting and putting a lot into your child is a very very good thing. But having had the pleasure of a parenting a struggling, summer born child (channelling a particularly hacked off mule, who had lost faith in its ability to face a steep climb when all the donkeys frolicked ahead of him) I didn't find it to be a magic wand in the face of almost a whole year less of development. While some older children may gain an achievement boost due to being ahead developmentally and take encouragement from that, some of the younger children may suffer the opposite affect. In which case a self fulfilling prophecy might come into play. In that scenario, with some personality types, efforts to parent them out of their corner of "can't, so won't+shan't" could be drowned out by all the other messages they receive from peers, teachers, other adults.

Re birth month and disease

I think the NHS did a better job of reporting that than the Independent. Certainly it fits better with my (albeit rapid) read of the original study.

from NHS news

It just seems really silly to put off TTC because you don't want a child born in a particular month. The OPs husband is basing it on anecdotal evidence of when he was at school.

It matters to him, enough to want to halt TTC temporarily. God knows fertility issues, losing a much wanted baby and having a child can all put enough strain on a couple without adding additional tension with one half maybe feeling pressured when they don't feel the timing is right. His stance now may be anecdotal, but half an hour on Google would give him armfuls of studies and stats to support his initial misgivings.

Luckily for both them, as a poster pointed out above, the British gov. appears to have weighed up the potential for a statistically significant, summer born disadvantage that lingers and changed policy. With flexible school start points on the table, even if she and her husband have a summer born child that they later feel isn't ready for school in the standard timeframe.. they will have options.

tiggytape - Perhaps there is some truth in the worry that teachers are a bit more likely to refer a very immature August-born than a more settled Sept one but that child is not going to be diagnosed as needing additional help unless they are actually delayed for their age. Which in a way is a good thing – plenty of children with additional needs go undiagnosed for years by falling under the radar. Early referral is always better.

Perhaps the difference has a two fold answer. Could it be something like this...

More younger children are referred. Of that disproportionately larger group .. a small proportion are misdiagnosed as having a SEN when what they really need is more time (humans are fallible), further bumping the proportion of younger children diagnosed with SEN.

AND

Fewer older children are referred because their relative "older-ness" helps mask an additional need that never gets discovered. Reducing the proportion of older kids diagnosed with SEN.

duchesse - with some allowances being made for boys, in whom immaturity is often more socially acceptable.

That makes sense to me. It could point to why to an already disproportionately large group (of more immature summer borns) is also so female heavy. Sheer numbers of referrals for certain groups increasing the proportion of certain groups being given a diagnosis ?

My twins were born nearly 10 weeks early, so have an August birthday. At the end of the day they both survived their birth and all the health problems they were born with. They're a couple of fighters.
This is what is more important to DH and myself.
Both are doing fine at school.
You can't plan everything in life.

It looks like Ilikebaking is an actual teacher!!
God help her "stupid" pupils that need support

Apparently by the age of 7/8 summer born babies will have caught up. My DD is starting a notoriously hard to get into and selective private school in September and they take a quota of children from all months of the year as they too believe this is true. Saying that I was the same and didn't want a July/Aug baby so I get where you DH is coming from too

We started ttc with the intention of having a Sept/ Oct/ Nov baby (ridiculously niave thinking most people conceive in first 3 months before trying and discovering this is not the case). I wouldn't have stopped trying, and not had my summer baby, for anyone though.

Anecdote rather than data, but summer born Ds1 was academically miles ahead of winter born ds2 at school starting age.