To think its unfair to force the dad to be at the birth?

[ASorcererIsAWizardSquared]

Just hear me out :)

We've all heard the view that if they were there for the conception and should be for the birth, but if they (for whatever reason) really, really didn't want to be in the room during the birth, is it fair to force them to be?

DH was at both of mine, but i gave him that choice as i had my mum as my primary birth partner, if he hadn't wanted to be, i'd have been a little disappointed, but i'd have never FORCED him to be there.

I think birth should be as positive and calming and stress free as possible, and having someone in the room who really doesn't want to be there doesn't sit right with me.

I've spoken to a couple of people who've said if their Dh's/BFs had refused they'd have ended the relationship, but i think that's borderline abusive.

If you DIDN'T want them there, and they wanted to be, there would be uproar at them trying to force, bully and blackmail their will on the situation, so why is it ok in some womens' eyes for them to do the same to them?

Sally - Well everyone has made it clear throughout that it's about a situation where the mother wants support. So I've no idea what your MAN comment is supposed to show.

But 'entitled'. Fuck me yes. Someone going through something big and scary and risky and important is entitled to have their partner support them if they want and it's possible. And not in the derogatory sneery way you meant entitled. Entitled as in it shouldn't even be a question that part and parcel of being in a mutually respectful relationship means sometimes doing things you don't want to because the other person wants your help.

I did have a totally painless labour, as I said I have also had painful labours so I don't understand why SweetAndFullofGrace would ever think I am accusing anyone of lying what I said was it seems to be emphasised as if it is inevitable. After my first labour I truly did not understand what people were talking about and I could feel contractions, they just didn't hurt. Having stitches in was another matter and when I had my second baby I was terrified of being stitched so I guess that indicates I don't have a particularly high threshold for pain. I used the gas and air to the point of passing out as the stitching hurt so much.

My NCT group of mums were all dreadfully jealous. They were all going to the local brand new spangly maternity hospital but I was going to a rather grotty old unit that didn't have a good reputation so everyone was sympathetic to me during our classes as we all assumed I would have the hardest time. I think it is fair to say I enjoyed the experience but the whole thing was ruined by the stitches.

My next labour was similar but as I had flu I was quite weak and unwell so didn't find it such a positive experience. I then had a section, GA so knew nothing about it and finally a rather fast but horrible forceps. Just goes to show you can't assume that every labour will be the same as mine were all quite different.

Just wanted to add that my easiest labours were the ones where I didn't have anyone with me other than midwife but they were also the ones where I was young and presumably at the best age for babies so don't know if there is a connection.

I was very interested in Michel Odent's theories and maybe that influenced me?

I haven't rtft but imo it's 'selfish' to not see it as a personal choice thing, each couple should do what it right for them. For me, I despise my DD's bio dad for missing her (planned date to be induced) birth that he promised he would be there for to go get high and have sex with the OW, then refuse to visit as DD wasn't his according to him, DNA proved him wrong. My DH however had doubts about coming to the birth of our first DS, we discussed it all before the birth and he eventually made the decision to stick with me and support me through a horrendously long latent labour and stressful induction. He hated seeing me in pain but says that seeing me give birth to his baby boy made him so proud to be my DH. There were no doubts for DS2's birth, and he also said that he was even prouder of me because of the circumstances of the birth. It also helped to have him to 'debrief' with after the birth.

Of course it's a personal thing and each couple should decide but this is about the scenario when the mother-to-be wants their partner to be there and the partner doesn't really want to. So within the couple whose feelings are prioritised.

Sorry granny I misinterpreted your comment "There always seems to be alot of emphasis on pain" and took you to mean you thought that painful labour wasn't the norm.

So you would sit in and watch then?

I would sit in and give support but there'd be no good reason for me to watch. A good reason would be, for example, if my child was coming out.

Also the discussion isn't about being at the business end, it's about being in the room for the mother to be. You make it sound like people are trying to trap dads in one of those contraptions they use in Clockwork Orange where you can't blink

Am I the only person who has ever given birth without any pain or pain relief?

No but you're in the 0.0001% bracket I'd say

sally I don't know why you think a mans "right" trumps his partners need for support but if there is one time in life that women can be all "meeeee" as you put it, it's when they're giving birth to their child. The mother is without a doubt the most important person in that room, having a healthy baby is not all that matters and sometimes there's situations in life where people need to put aside their own feelings for a loved one. This is one of them.

Have to say I'm surprised at the amount of women who gave birth without their OHs on here, I can't think of anyone IRL who didn't have their OH there must be another MN thing

I gave birth without pain killers - DH's main role in the delivery room was to make sure that no one tried to give me an epidural (v fortunately, wasn't necessary in the end)

That's OK Sweet, I just worry sometimes that people who haven't had a baby will expect horrific pain as it is so often emphasised, I think part of the reason I had no pain with my first two labours was I was very young and totally believed what I had read and been told about controlling it with breathing. I still think back to my breathing and relaxation if I am having a medical procedure that isn't nice, the one that always makes me smile is "hand it to them on a plate." which I was taught at relaxation classes (I will leave you to guess what we were handing them!!!!)

Listening to my 2 DILs tales of their pregnancies the classes seem different now, more about understanding what happens and preparing for afterwards but the classes I went to were very much about relaxing and breathing, I think we self hypnotised although we didn't call it that.

Don't most people want someone they know, love and trust there? Not necessarily their male partner but someone there for support, labour can go on for days I can't imagine doing that alone and my husband is the person I'm closest to and who I'd want there with me!
Giving birth sounds bloody scary (I'll be doing it for the first time soon) and i'd be pretty upset if my husband opted out of the whole thing to be honest!

Some strange attitudes on this thread- would I WATCH him have the snip? Probably not if it wasn't beneficial to him, just as I wouldn't WATCH him have a liver transplant or whatever but I'd be there before and after and when he's recovering etc. I think you can be awake during the snip though so yeah If he wanted me there during the op I'd definitely be there, but it wouldn't be WATCHING, such a weird word to use.