To think its unfair to force the dad to be at the birth?

[ASorcererIsAWizardSquared]

Just hear me out :)

We've all heard the view that if they were there for the conception and should be for the birth, but if they (for whatever reason) really, really didn't want to be in the room during the birth, is it fair to force them to be?

DH was at both of mine, but i gave him that choice as i had my mum as my primary birth partner, if he hadn't wanted to be, i'd have been a little disappointed, but i'd have never FORCED him to be there.

I think birth should be as positive and calming and stress free as possible, and having someone in the room who really doesn't want to be there doesn't sit right with me.

I've spoken to a couple of people who've said if their Dh's/BFs had refused they'd have ended the relationship, but i think that's borderline abusive.

If you DIDN'T want them there, and they wanted to be, there would be uproar at them trying to force, bully and blackmail their will on the situation, so why is it ok in some womens' eyes for them to do the same to them?

Piper, I'd very much like him to be there. But against his will? No, I wouldn't make him do it. What's the point?

Personally I didn't want to be at the birth which is why I skipped that bit and had ELCSs instead :)

I know it's a low percentage but still each and every day women all over the world die during childbirth...
30% of births are an emergency section..
I'm sorry but if he can't be there to support you whilst you risk your life delivering his child he wants his nads chopping off like a dog. He ain't a man..

The point is that he is meant to be there for you at a vulnerable and painful time. Your feelings matter in this situation more than his. Against his will? He should have the will to be at the birth

I suspect it would be counter-productive to have an unwilling birth partner. I'm not sure about the necessity of reconsidering the relationship if the father is not willing/able to attend, it may work better all round for someone who is more able to deal with it to support the mother in labour

I agree with you 100% about a unwilling birthing partner being a useless one.

I also agree that if the woman is not to fussed about it, or does not view it as letting her down in her hour of need then yes that's a good thing and it obviously works for them.

But I apsolutly cannot condem or negatively judge a woman who would view it as such and would reconsider her relationship. I don't know but I would guess that any woman who would say it would make her reconsider and actually mean it,would consider it something so fundamentally important to herself that it would be a deal breaker.

And I do understand it. Some of the most competent independent woman may view it as an essential and (with the obvious exclusion of a serious illness) it is not unreasonable to expect their DH/DP to put his/her personal feelings or wishes aside to step up I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to make serious attempts to try and resolve a phobia, granted they may not be able to but one would think a reasonable attempt to seek treatment for a phobia would go a long way towards showing willing that may make a huge difference to how the pregnant woman felt about the situation.

I think for far to long many women have been conditioned to accept less than ideal behaviour from the men in their lives and challenging them when stating their perfectly reasonable and valid needs and twisting it to call it blackmail as the op has done is petulant childish and rather unpleasant.

Stating you will leave someone if they talk to a friend/have a night out/wear perticular clothing/don't answer the phone within 3 rings/buy you a unnesacery frippery something like that would be emotionally abusive blackmail

Stating you will leave someone if they are unwilling to meet a genuine and reasonable relationship need like taking equal responsibility for family welfare or family responsibilities or provide support at what may be one of the most painful and stressful times of your life when that support is essential to you and actually doing so is one way to help reduce the strange idea than woman don't have the right to have reasonable expectations from people they chose to share their lives with.

Sorry rant over (I think)

No one should be forcing anyone! Of course you'd want him to be there but if he crashes at the sight of blood etc then it's not fair and he's actually not that good a support for you lol... It doesn't mean at all that he loves you or the kids any less, and there shouldn't be any punishment! Some people just aren't built that way. You'd be better with a birth partner who can support you and be brave for you. Find all these 'man up' comments really terrible!! I'm lucky my husband has been there for the birth of all 3 of our children (2 of which were born a few hours ago) but if he wasn't able to be around the blood etc I would never hold it against him, he's a great dad!

Lucas83 I get to be the first to send on the arrival of your twins and to say that if you are back on MN already youa re one tough lady!

I think I would have thought less of DH if he hadn't wanted to be there at the births of our DCs. Maybe that is unreasonable, I can't decide. In the event he delivered DS2 with one hand while he was talking to an ambulance dispatcher on the phone. Luckily he's not squeamish!

Well why restrict it to the father, make the whole family take a swim in the birthing pool fluids!

I read in the paper yesterday that younger woman are so used to sharing everything that they regularly invite their own fathers, friends and have 6 in the delivery room. #Selfie

My inner microbiologist is having a fit at that picture.

In our case, I just found it interesting. Also I was on fire to meet DD. I suppose it helps if you've seen a bit of gore previously. Tip: Swiss Army knives aren't recommended for cutting the cord. Nor is going "wow, you're really quite stretchy".

I think it depends why they wouldn't want to be there and how it's discussed. It's not easy to answer as you have 2 people , each with their different feelings and widely differing birth scenarios, and each combination would be different.
Having had one birth with, one without, I can say that , for many reasons, the one without was more relaxed and I was so concentrated on the self-hypnosis that I was relieved to be able to go through this on my own. It made sense. I didn't have to think about him, he was safely tucked in a safe compartment of my mind with DS1 and it all fitted with my frame of mind as I had one job to do that no one else could do for me.
He turned up at the door with DS1 a couple of mn after DS2 was born and it was a perfect moment. ( very quick birth in the middle of the night, we couldn't get hold of anyone to take care of DS1 on a school night so I went to hospital on my own )
If he had refused point blank, it would have depended on why, and I'm sure we could have worked it out without anyone getting upset. It's fantastic that fathers are involved, but it shouldn't be a catastrophy if they aren't I think. Different things work for different situations and tolerance should be mandatory...

If back in the UK, it wouldn't really bother me if DH didn't want to be in the room during the birth. I would just ask my mum instead. Everyone needs support, but it doesn't always have to be from one specific person. Surely if both parties are mature adults, then this should be discussed in advance, so alternative arrangements could be made which both people are happy with.

I would however expect DH to be there in the hospital, and to stay with me up until he needed to leave. Waiting, say, down at the pub would trigger papers served....

I absolutely don't understand people who are saying "If he doesn't want to be there then HE ISN'T A REAL MAN". Men being present at the birth is a hugely new thing. For the vast majority of time they were kicked out and it was considered a woman's sphere.

A man that doesn't want to witness the birth of his own child, isn't ready to be a father!!

We go through the pain and the least a father can do is support his partner and actually witness the wonder that is childbirth..

Can't handle it, keep it in your trews or keep your man sticker on

My DH couldn't be in the room when I had a c-section with my twins. The poor thing has a severe phobia of hospitals - he has passed out before now just taking a workmate into A&E.
Obviously he wanted to be there when they were born, we had even paid a fortune for hypnotherapy to try and cure the problem which helped a little and allowed him to be sat in the room (at a distance) whilst I was in labour. However once it became clear I needed a c-section he was a quivering wreck - there was NO way he could be in there with me.
So it's not as simple as people saying 'he made a baby, he should be in there'. He feels terrible about it but it wasn't his fault.

I think for far to long many women have been conditioned to accept less than ideal behaviour from the men in their lives and challenging them when stating their perfectly reasonable and valid needs and twisting it to call it blackmail as the op has done is petulant childish and rather unpleasant.*

Absolutely this. Excellent post Needs

Gah that should have been in bold

Sock - Very few people on this thread haven't accepted phobias are different. As illustrated by your DH, that is not a case of 'not wanting' to be at the birth. It's 'wanting to support but phobia making it impossible'. Being regretful and disappointed that your phobia stops you being the support you want to be is a world away from saying "I know you want my support but I'd really, really rather not".

Phobias aside. This is a discussion I would have before getting pregnant personally. What works for other people is absolutely fine but for me, it would be a deal breaker if my DP would just prefer not to be there at the birth.

My exDP was there through labour and emergency c-section with our first and elective c-section with our second. He was beyond excited and thrilled both times.

My now DP is very eager to be there when we have DC together. My own personal circumstance is that this is the person i love and have chosen to spend my life with, he is the one I turn to for comfort when I am in pain or worried. He is amazing at making me feel better. So yes, it's a massive deal for him to be there when I am at my most vulnerable, bring our children into the world.

I don't expect other people to feel the same way. But it is a deal breaker for me

Redxen ... Strong independent women are quite capable of giving birth without their partner there ... its a natural process thats doesnt need a man to be there ... It makes no difference to their ability to be a father. In some cases stepfathers are the better parent ... wonder how many men would find it insulting if they didnt make it to the birth, not by choice but by circumstances to be call a bad father/not ready to be a father ... like a lady said earlier some cultures its frowned upon... are they lesser men? Lesser fathers?

Frankly I don't want anyone other than the absolutely necessary (i.e. doctors) present when I give birth. I include myself in that! Knock me out and wake me up when it's over, please

Sally, you are quite right. The thing is, I would love to see the reverse on this. 'As a man, I'm about to go through a painful, messy procedure. My wife says she loves me, but feels she cannot face watching me in agony or deal with it. I think she's less of a woman for it and have lost respect for her. Even though we're a strong couple otherwise, I'm now considering if I can even be with her. She should just woman up and get a grip as it's not about her having a choice since I'm the one who has to suffer. Any woman who thinks that way is quite frankly pathetic and selfish'.

I think most feminist would blow their tops on here, reading such a thing.

I am a feminist and I posed that scenario further down thread of an illustration of why it isn't ok to just 'really really prefer not to be there'.

If a man felt that a woman had let him down by not wanting to support him at his most vulnerable, I wouldn't say that was unreasonable.

Not phrased as you have, obviously. It isn't about womaning up. It is about respecting a request for support.

As I explained in my post sally, it is a deal breaker for me if my partner would just rather not attend the birth out of preference which of course excludes phobias and as you say unfortunate circumstance.
I have not mentioned that I thought they wouldn't be a 'real' father? It is actually nothing to do with baby or being a father but rather about being a partner to me.
I'm not sure what being a strong independent woman has to do with anything? Would I not be one by wanting a supportive partner at the birth?

I have no qualms with what other people want/do as I said. But I don't feel my feelings on this are unreasonable providing I make them clear from the outset to my DP?