'The only way we've sorted a sleep prob in this house is controlled crying' - fuck off!!

[Smataya]

I text friend who has two under two how hard it's been of late with Ds 11 months just not sleeping. I've explained before he is just not a sleeper and likes to be close at night, wakes a lot for milk and that I'm doing attachment parenting. She knows how against cc I am and I will not ever leave my child to cry. Ds has not slept for longer than an hour since he was 5 months which is starting to take its toll, but as I say, he's just not a sleeper and it's tough.

Why the f is she doing this pa bull shit about cc over text?? She's been like eerr have you tried sleep training to me before and I just don't want to hear it. Her two sleep through and I just find it smug- she's got lucky and now claiming its all down to cc. Am I justified in texting back to say ftfo to the far side of fuck?!?!

Oh OP You sound knacked. I don't have the answer My youngest is 2 and still wakes to dream feed but (fingers crossed) has had two nights where slept through for six hours. AP is hard. Something has to give. In my case an active sex life and tidy house
You can either accept that and go with it by co-sleeping, napping when baby naps and extended feeding, and bite the hand off anyone taking dc for you to play catch up and therefore understand that kids hath murdered sleep for the time being OR you can try doing the withdrawl method the painfully slow way...grobag, your smell cuddly, black out curtains, someone else going to them with water/cow's milk in a month's time, edging away from cot, sleeping on floor next to cot....but I did none of that as it seemed harder than just co sleeping and catching up zzzzz at weekends.

fwiw her text was not smug, just factual.

Giles I agree and when the OP said "I just want him to be secure and happy" I thought "well neither of you seem very happy to me!"

I had a friend into attachment parenting, neither of her children slept for years, they were both up and down all night. Her and her husband were so knackered under so much stress they split up, both but it down to sleep deprivation making them so snappy. I cced while they were still in our bedroom mine all through by 4 months. I'm not suggesting you cc and I don't think 11 months is actually that old not to be sleeping through so wouldn't say your method isn't working. But, I think one of the most important things you can do for your child is look after yourself, your health and your relationship with baby's dad. I don't think you're looking after yourself enough here.

Maybe you don't like her cc methods, but maybe she doesn't like your AP methods either. Maybe she's bored of hearing about it.

You're tired so I'm hoping your reaction is due to this, but you did ask.

Very well put Giles

Very True. How can allowing your baby to go with out much needed sleep be anything other but cruel? I notice the Op has vanished. I guess this isn't what she wanted to hear.
Bloody stupid parenting crazes. They've a lot to answer to.

I'm with you on being completely anti cc and am also chronically sleep deprived as between them my 14 month old twins wake hourly most nights. I know I'm much more easily annoyed than usual, especially about people suggesting controlled crying.

However, the reason it's so popular is that it does work. The reason I'm passionately against it for my children is that I don't believe it works by teaching a child to self sooth but by teaching them that however sad and scared they are, they are on their own. Like the Miles has learned nobody comes advert. I doubt anyone using cc believes that, so to them I'm a crazy woman making my own life harder because I don't want to let my precious babies cry at all. Your friend probably feels the same way.

There's no middle ground so I don't bother arguing just smile and ignore - and try not to mention how tired I am.

CC and that advert are so far apart its untrue. What an awful thing to say.

I would love to be in a situation where I could do cc. I live in a terraced house with walls so thin that I can hear curtains being drawn next door, coughing and so on. so h ere I am with a 14 month old who wakes every two hours every night. I am on my knees. we had loads of issues with our old neighbour and DD2 who used to cry for hours due to ear issues. I cannot face going there again, I am away next week. So am hoping to be able to do something then. However, my DH will not be with me so I will be looking after three children on no sleep at all.

if you do find something that helps please tell me. She falls asleep on her own, she may be being disturbed by us. She needs her own space, but we cant give it to her.

I cannot wait to be able to be in a position to just let her cry.

It isn't a choice between CC and doing nothing anyway - have you tried anything else OP?

Teaching a child to sleep can be hard work so I don't think it is "lucky" to get children sleeping through for most people.

Littletabby - you know you don't have to do cry-it-out (leaving a baby alone) to get them to sleep? Not wanting to ever leave a toddler to cry is crazy, sometimes they don't get what they want and sometimes they do cry.

You sound absolutely exhausted and with good reason if you have both been disturbed on an hourly basis for the last 6 months.

Without wishing to be told to fuck off I think you have to take a long term view, can you cope with this lack of sleep for the next few years and will your child?

Is Ap the same as non parenting? I.E following the child's lead whilst doing nothing yourself remotely parent -like, that is being in charge and knowing how to best meet basic needs-like sleep??????

I think you sound desperately tired, OP. Nevertheless, you should be careful what you say. I am no attachment parent, but my daughter is "secure and happy", thank you very much. I think it is best not to discuss your sleep deprivation if you do not want the advice people are likely to give you.

With mine it was hunger. A big old meal at dinner =a looooong sleep

The reason I'm passionately against it for my children is that I don't believe it works by teaching a child to self sooth but by teaching them that however sad and scared they are, they are on their own. Like the Miles has learned nobody comes advert.

What a disgusting thing to say. Ridiculous manipulation of tired parents who want to do their best.

CC helps the child to fall asleep and self settle.

These threads always worry me.

I have awful images of people crashing their cars or falling asleep in the bath with their babies because they must be so exhausted I don't know how they function.

assigning yourself one school of parenting and refusing to budge even when it's not working is madness. why limit yourself.

There are so many things to try. Some that don't involve crying or leaving your baby alone.

honestly, I have to question those who carry on regardless of it working or not because it has to be about wearing the AP badge over what's best for your baby.

My DD has struggled with sleep and we also decided CC was not for us, but no, clearly you are not justified in sending that response! You texted her, she responded with advice based on her own experience. What else did you expect from her?

How is AP a parenting 'craze'? It is as old as the hills, the modern obsession with training small babies has a lot to answer for IMO.

OP, if you text a friend saying you are knackered etc she will come back with suggestions. I know her suggestions grate, but she can only suggest what she knows. I agree 11 months is waaaaay to young to be looking for solutions that involve crying and being left (I initially thought your child was 2 and was going to share the story of teaching DS to fall asleep without being fed when he turned 2, but he is older so irrelevant) but there are things you can do that are more gentle. What do you do at the moment? Have you tried Pantley 'No cry sleep solution'? I would also suggest finding a gentle parenting forum of sorts where you can talk without feeling out of place, Natural Mamas was a godsend for me when mine were smaller.

Like the Miles has learned nobody comes advert.

ODFOD

WOW!!!!!

You choose AP so don't moan about it, if that's what you want to do then crack on and suck it up!

Personally I can't think of anything worst than AP

giles has it spot on. Your 11mo isn't happy and secure if he's waking every hour. He's not going to be happy and contented if you're on your knees every day due to exhaustion.

I've never been a fan of foisting routine on babies, but bedtime is important. Your 11mo has the sleep patterns of a newborn, that's just not fair on anyone in your house.

I'm all up for elements of attachment parenting if it suits your family, but sometimes I think it's followed by mums for their own benefit, not for the child. It's hard to see how your DC is benefitting from this.

Ywbu if you responded like that, but you are horribly sleep deprived which is a shame and I think it is skewing your perception of the situation.

On one hand you asked the opinion of a friend who came back with an unhelpful suggestion regarding a way that she knows you are against. How annoying of her!

On the other hand you asked the opinion of a friend who you know has
used cc, so was unlikely to be able to recommend anything else. I don't think her text was pa tbh.

If you need advice it would be better to seek elsewhere such as the 'sleep' threads here, is there an ap section? Or maybe ap websites or speaking to a hv. Have you looked up gradual retreat?

For what it's worth, I believe those that put a label on themselves (in all aspects of life be it parenting, style etc) can set themselves up for a fail. Eg, ap's who are not willing to look at any other methods to the detriment of their contentment in case they lose the label. Personally I don't care about someone parenting a certain way as long as they're happy.

I have dts and cc worked fantastic with dt1, dt2 was having none of it and often sleeps in my bed, so I guess you could say I'm ap then but in all honesty it's just easier.

I do resent the comment regarding you want your ds to be happy. I've done cc and my ds is very happy thanks. Surely your ds needs sleep?

Ok, forget the label, look up sleep training methods, find which one works. Hopefully get some sleep! If it turns out to be a non ap method so what.

Text friend say 'thanks not sure that's for us do you have some more suggestions, maybe we could discuss it over '

^ The reason I'm passionately against it for my children is that I don't believe it works by teaching a child to self sooth but by teaching them that however sad and scared they are, they are on their own. Like the Miles has learned nobody comes advert.

Wow. Yes you are crazy to compare letting a kid cry for five minute or ten minute stretches for a couple of nights to extreme neglect. That is offensive.

CC does not lead to anybody the obvious, traumatised behaviour you see in neglected children. You obviously have zero understanding of attachment theory. Read some bowlby or winnicott then get some real sleep