To wonder how many cover ups there are and what we're not being told?

[EmeraldThief]

I've never really believed in conspiracy theories and thought people who thought there is any kind of truth in them were a bit odd/strange, but since the whole Jimmy Savile thing Im finding myself wondering more and more about what we're not being told things. Years ago I used to post on another forum and people on there were always hinting that Savile was a pervert and then the moderators would come along and ban people for libel and posts would get removed, but it turns out it was all true.

Now today I've just watched an Australian current affairs show attempting to expose a pedophile ring at the very heart of the British establishment, why aren't the UK media doing this? I feel so disturbed. What aren't we being told?

AIBU to wonder how many cover ups there are actually are? Everything is starting to feel a bit unreal, like one big lie.

As pointed out by PPs the focus on dead pedophile ghouls serves to portray the problem as belonging to a bygone era.

The problem can therefore be 'solved' by uncovering the truth about these dirty old perverts from the ignorant past.
Then we can put it behind us and move on into an untainted future ?

What do people think about the missing Malaysian airplane?

Do you think the govt knows what happened to the plane?

PetShopGirl - AFAIK the highest ranking politician that tried to investigate politicans and VIP child abuse was Barbara Castle, but it was later in her career when she was not in govt, it was when she was a Euro MEP.

I think the goverment knows fantasyland didn't another malaysian plane get shot down not long after I definitely think theres a connection.

My Grandfather was aware of a cover up which occurred before the second world war. Nothing to do with child abuse, but a naval matter that is still covered by the official secrets act, even though the files should have been released years ago. He was visited at home by the military police for many years and they would remind him to keep what he knew to himself. My Grandfather always said that the details in the public domain were incorrect. About ten years ago, a small piece of information came to light which verified what my Grandfather had told my Dad.

So these things do happen..

mehs thank you. What we are seeing spread out across these boards is not open mindedness, but scepticism applied without critical thought.

As we've seen there have been individual MPs who have committed sexual offences against children. They may have acted with pthers. Those around them may have kept quiet or not acted on their suspicions. That in itself isn't evidence of a massive government level satanic abuse network involving every major figure of the 21st century.

No one has said that it is.

There is certainly a group of high powered individuals who have abused their position over decades. In order for them to have been getting away with such a level of abuse for so long, it is pretty certain that other high up people have been complicit in this.

It is no coincidence that the same names keep on coming up over and over again.

Interesting story Sunnymeg and very scary too. I can't imagine they were pleasant tea and biscuits chats when the police came to call on your grandad who knows what threats were issued to the welfare of his loved ones if he didn't keep schtum.

Who knows what was in the mind of Dr David Kelly?

When you work for the govt machine who knows what sort of compromises of your integrity that need to be made .
I dread to think.

My mind doesn't even want to go there.

MehsMum, composhat = voices of reason.

Agree with both of you. Sometimes things just happen. Men of Robin Cook's and John Smith's age do just drop dead of heart attacks - my husband nearly did last year in spite of being as lean as a whippet and extremely fit. I can assure everyone that that wasn't down to MI5.

It is a natural human impulse to look for patterns and try to make sense of what you see around you. Sometimes, though, there is no neat solution.

People are not keen to admit when they are in the wrong so they try to cover things up, not because of a mega conspiracy, just to avoid getting into trouble. I've always assumed that's what happened at Hillsborough. The fact that it means hurt and pain to others is probably not so clear in that initial moment of panic when somebody starts trying to deflect blame and then it seems too late to come clean. If the people getting the blame instead are thought to be of no account (e.g. football fans) so much the better in the cowardly ones' eyes, but of course at Hillsborough they miscalculated hugely because it turned out that many of those football fans' families were tenacious, articulate people who (rightly) wouldn't let it go.

Secondly, it is often much easier to turn a blind eye to wrongdoing amongst your friends, relations, colleagues and bosses than it is to make a stand against it. If the wrongdoing is perceived as a victimless crime (e.g. fraud) or if the victims are powerless and not sympathetic (e.g. children in care in the 80s and earlier, who were often written off as feral, sexually precocious and a danger to decent people) it seems to be even easier. You can see that in the disclosure this week of that Cabinet Office memo that just doesn't talk about the victims of the sexual abuse that threatened the reputation of the government back in the 80s. Utterly hideous.

Sunnymeg, the Lusitania?

No, HMS Thetis, a submarine that sunk in June 1939. It resulted in the deaths of nearly 100 men. My Grandfather should have been on it that day, but refused to board as he believed their were problems with it.

The US government have been found guilty of some pretty jaw dropping cover ups such as the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, Project MK ultra and agent orange to name a few.

Its also interesting to see that many people are ready to believe in hardcore conspiracy theories concerning pedophile rings but the moment anyone mentions that vaccinations may be a bad thing and part of a global Eugenics program or a way to keep us sick for profit they get torn to shreds.

healthimpactnews.com/2015/the-american-history-of-compulsory-vaccination-and-its-ties-to-eugenics/

Flame away, I still believe there is something to it.

Dowser said:
When you work for the govt machine who knows what sort of compromises of your integrity that need to be made .

Well, what did I say? If you know gov't from the inside, and therefore do have some genuine insight about how it works and what really goes on, you are obviously part of the Borg....

I didn't make any compromises with my integrity; one reason I went into government employment was because a lot of other jobs did seem to involve making compromises of one sort or another. Somebody I worked with, a genial and harmless bloke, emerged later as a serious whistle-blower about corruption in the EU. So yeah, obviously he compromised his integrity too. When I worked in local government I did encounter several self-aggrandising idiots, but they were outnumbered by the unpaid local councillors doing their best for their constituents, often at an age when a lot of people do nothing more exciting than prune their roses. A furniture scheme to provide the skint with cots and tables, an after-school club aimed to be inclusive of kids with SN, extra street lights for people's peace of mind. That's the sort of thing that people 'who work for the government machine' help to bring into being.

Sure, governments cock up badly at times. There is the odd cover-up, often beginning as a cock-up. Read what Gasp0de said for an explanation.

But clearly I know nothing, because I "compromised [my] integrity to work for the government machine". I could be offended, but I really can't raise the steam.

I object to the term 'research' being used to mean 'reading blogs on the internet'.

what are the necessary and sufficient conditions then Bigkid, for an activity to qualify as 'research'?

anyone mentions that vaccinations may be a bad thing and part of a global Eugenics program or a way to keep us sick for profit they get torn to shreds

idea's and theories often come to be associated with certain groups of people, or types of people, others will then align themselves (or not) with those theories on the basis of whether they identify with the associated group of people.

Partly because it is quicker (and we all have busy lives etc) to think 'do my 'sort' subscribe to that theory' than to take the time to weigh it all up, do the research, or 'research' etc

I think reading primary sources, in the main. Not reading someone's blog, which may well be completely wrong, and going from there to references they supply. You can easily get caught in an echo-chamber where everything reinforces everything else but starting from the wrong premise. You see it in the 'research' done by anti vaxxers all the time.

I agree with bigkidsdidit that research is an overused word. It means more than looking something up on the internet. There always used to be a suggestion of working hard to build up a thorough understanding of an area and of critical evaluation, not just picking out the bits of other peoples' conclusions that you like the sound of.

I see your point Bigkids but surely every source has an agenda, we can get it 'straight from the horses mouth' but even the horse may spin things.
As for the 'wrong premise' who gets to say what the correct premise is?

Who gets to determine the parameters of the questions we asks, who constructs the 'box' in which we do our thinking.

Everyone has an angle
often there is no objective truth
today's heresy is tomorrow consensus

Thing with the news is its usually in the publics best interests not to release all the details because of vigilantes or simply causing fear in the general population.

It's an extended reason of why you simplify things you tell the kids

Everyone has an angle, often there is no objective truth,today's heresy is tomorrow consensus

Sorry but not all sources of information are equal. For example an article in an academic journal will be properly referenced, so if you feel inclined can check where the author got their information from and if you feel so inclined check up on them and/or draw your own conclusions. It will also be reviewed by other academics before it reaches publication.

Unsourced, unreferenced websites, that can be knocked up by anyone with an internet connection and a bee in their bonnet and make allegations on nothing more than wild rumours, speculation, illogical leaps of the imagination are a different kettle of fish.

The 'evidence' and 'research' cited on this thread falls very much into the latter category.

it's ok, there's no need to apologise Compo

I wasn't apologising.

but you said 'sorry' at the start of the post
I'm not sure what you were apologising for, but sorry is an apology...is it not?