David Cameron has finally admitted that "integration is not working"

[WhetherOrNot]

AIBU to think that he should have cottoned on about 10 years ago, not now when it is so glaringly obvious as to be an embarrassment for everyone?

black people can be racist - lots of people can be racist

people can have opinions - they can publish those opinions

it doesn't mean everyone has to agree - nor does it make those opinions fact - being black also doesn't mean he's right or that it's the only valid view

I do think alot of the problems with integration come from the established community and not from the newcomers

I forgot to say that I'm Jewish. I know quite a lot of 2nd and 3rd generation people in the community who only mix with other Jewish people and whos kids/grandkids are educated in Jewish schools, have only Jewish friends and attend Jewish organisations. There are insular sections of most ethic minority groups I should think. It's usually born out of fear, prejudice, feeling misunderstood and disliked. At the moment, the majority of Muslims are having to deal with the hostility caused by actions of extremists from within their community. Jews are dealing with hostility arising out of anger over the Israeli government's actions in palestine. There's nothing like hostility to make minority groups feel beleaguered and to not leave the safety and comfort zone of their own people.

Some areas comprise of Asian food stores, sari shops, takeaways; pharmacists; halal shops. I drove through one area and there were only Asian people in Asian attire. It needs to be seen to be believed and I felt like an outsider. There desperately needs to be more integration- it's shocking

so integration only works ONE WAY?

Asia is a big place btw - and these people I am guessing where paying rent on the shops, tax on the clothes etc etc - so brining something of value to society

why does 'integration' mean changing everything about yourself - that's assimilation - it's not the same thing

who is to blame for the mess in Syria and neighbouring countries is beside the point. As others have said, there are large swathes of the UK where immigrants have no desire to integrate. I don't know what needs to be done to change that, but something definitely does need to be done.

There's nothing like hostility to make minority groups feel beleaguered and to not leave the safety and comfort zone of their own people

^^ this

I think in the context of this discussion integration does only work one way. The UK is a very to,errant and accepting society, which is of course why people want to come here. Once here people need to make the effort to integrate.

these 'immigrants' are probably BRITISH kardamyli born here, raised here and part of our society - maybe you should integrate with them?

you don't seem very accepting

you seem to want everyone to be like you - that's not integrating

He's quite right, of course. it's been over 100 years since the formation of the Labour party, and since then we've all (enfranchised descendents of the victorian underclass) been trying to pretend that it's possible for the interests of the masses to be compatible with the interests of a small, self-centred, non-integrated clique of very rich, very powerful people, and that democracy will sort things out. Clearly it won't - certainly not the First Past the Post system at any rate. Tories are simply not capable of integrating into a democratic system which is supposed to work in the best interests of society as a whole. They subscribe to a dangerous ideology of extreme free-market capitalism, condoning shady deals like TTIP (google it. seriously) whilst right-thinking citizens look on powerlessly.

which is a good thing AnUtterIdiot - and it works both ways - I have Muslim friends, I go into multicultural areas to eat and shop I accept being part of a mixed and varied society - I don't expect everyone to be like me in order to fit in

The issue I think is a refusal to accept change - thus to accept different cultures - which leads to isolation and ignorance on many sides

Oh Kardamyli I really think you should

I live near a huge Pakistani and Punjabi neighbourhood. Yes there are predominantly shops catering for their needs but I go into some of the food shops, fabric stores etc and have not felt any hostility or discomfort. I am maybe naive, but most people when met with someone who is polite, smiley and interested, will be treated just fine.

If you came into the Jewish deli I go to, the guy on the tills wouldn't say good Sabbath to you on a Friday like he would to me, but he will be kind, helpful and polite to whoever comes in. It really does work both ways.

Trevor Philips argued that multiculturalism wasn't working. Not that integration isn't working. Multiculturalism is almost the opposite of integration. We are only recently moving towards an approach of integration but still don't really have one.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism

Who on earth on this thread thought DC was calling for anything other than better integration? That is what I've been trying to say we need. There should be an expectation on the part of all immigrants that they will have to integrate to a certain extent into the society they have chosen to join. The UK is on the whole very welcoming to other cultures, much more so than the majority of Western countries. Sure there are a few UKIP type idiots, but on the whole most people are keen to make friends from other cultures. Them problem is the vast numbers of immigrants who make zero effort.

Kardamyli

The British people are being divided into sections and and set upon one another. We divide them into classes and tell them to hate one another. We divide them into races and tell them to hate one another. We divide them into religious groups and we tell them to hate one another. If we can keep them focused upon their neighbour, worried about their neighbour, and defending their own 'rights' against attacks from their neighbours, they can be controlled and told what to do.

Last weeks media issue... Who gains from telling you to hate the lazy bone idle wasters who live on benefits?

Answer - Those who wish to dismantle the welfare state and divert its funding elsewhere.

This weeks media issue... Who benefits from telling you to hate Muslims?

Answer - Those who wish to propagate war in the oil states.

Why?

Because war is the most profitable enterprise known to man. More money is made in war than in any other human endeavour. We live on a planet of finite resources, with a declining supply. We must secure those resources either through alliance or conquest. We will have our war, and the British public will rejoice, because that is what we will tell them to do.

Right now you are being told how evil lurks in your neighbourhood (proverbially speaking). How the man with the darker skin and the fondness for facial hair, wants to kill your children. We are being fed news stories about how his evil brothers are beheading, raping and butchering in the Middle East, and how if we let them talk about it amongst themselves, they might just do this to us.

This is not different to the television reports we saw with women crying and claiming the Iraqi soldiers were emptying babies out of incubators in hospitals, or the hospitals full of dying women and children after they were gassed by the Syrian Army. Both proven categorically to have been falsified by the media.

If you cannot discern the difference between politically motivated distraction, and honest fact, and you allow yourself to be manipulated into supporting the war agenda (how many of us cannot see we are building towards war?), then let us hope it is those children who's parents support it, that are called upon to fight for their cause.

Our primary school must be about 50% Muslim. We have 37 different languages spoken by our pupils at home. Inner London. We all knock along very well - I'd say it's a great example of very lovely integration.

You can't even discuss these things. There should be an effort to take on SOME British values. I don't like feeling like an outsider in my own country. I make an effort with my Muslim friends and my ex. However the home life is a mysterious world that most definitely excluded me

I can see things from another viewpoint- I hated my ex who is British born hearing racism and felt that is damaging and sends these young people off to look for an identity. I didn't like that he referred to British girls as white slags but was more than happy to taste the goods

They May be British ghosty, but their parents, grandparents etc have taught them not to integrate, not to mix with white british people etc.

Let's have some evidence for that assertion, please. What I see is a generation of older immigrants who have become part of British society and who are horrified to see their young people turning away from tolerance and towards extremism. Sure there are always insular people - take a look at some of the more rigidly orthodox Jewish groups whose schools refuse to teach evolution and preach against women who drive. Some serious lack of integration going on there, too.

I feel very strongly that the aftermath of 9/11 is a strong causative factor in all this - suddenly it became acceptable to hate and fear Muslims. If you give people hatred and fear, should you be surprised that you get the same in return?

I live in a very white British area (am an immigrant myself but am as integrated as fuck, I even vaguely understand cricket) but I work with people across the UK from all backgrounds and cultures - and we all cooperate with mutual respect and friendship. We - and David Cameron - really need to be careful what we say, because currently we are risking alienating a lot of people who really are part of the communities we live in. Let's by all means take a serious look at what drives young people into the arms of extremism and then act on what we find, let's by all means deal with people who break anti-terrorism laws, but if we abandon tolerance we can just abandon hope alongside it.

There have been reports of young women, young men, families including babies leaving the UK to join ISIS, but you don't think there is any sort of problem with how all those people have integrated into UK society? If they had integrated, do you think they would still have upped and left to go to Syria?

I don't get what you are saying here? Are you saying that we have failed to stamp out their culture? Or that we have failed to convert them to our way of seeing the world? Or that they are clearly stupid because they do not value what we value, and we are clearly the superior culture?

Explain what you actually believe is happening? Because it seems to me that you are saying people should be allowed to have freedom to think and choose, so long as they think in line with what you wish them to think, and choose to do what you want them to do.

What exactly has a person done wrong, in your mind, by leaving this country for another that is engaged in a war?

There should be an effort to take on SOME British values.

Which are?

Some areas comprise of Asian food stores, sari shops, takeaways; pharmacists; halal shops

Shocking.

We demand Starbucks, a bookies, a poundland and a Tesco Express IMMEDIATELY.

Demise of the British High Street, hell in a handcart, etc etc.

Our national media loves to paint the British public as inherently bigoted and racist, and many of the responses on this thread play very well into that stereotype.

You can plant a single seed of thought into the public psyche and all of a sudden the hatred and resentment for ones fellow human beings is brought rushing to the fore.

How very predictable we all are.

Ellie, who in government is telling anyone to hate Muslims? DC has called for better integration, which can only lead to less, not more, hate and division amongst communities and less dislike of Muslims, or any other immigrant community.

I'm fairly neutral on the idea of dropping bombs on ISIS. The only thing that sways me against is the likelihood that some of those bombs will hit the wrong target.

The more of your posts that I read, the more I think you're a bit paranoid. Of course there's spin put on things, and burying bad news but you really think DC is asking for better integration in society as a precursor to war? Mind you, if there was a full blown war, I suspect a lot of extremist muslim nutters would leave to join the other side. Perhaps DC should pretend he's about to declare war, wait for them to leave and then say he's changed his mind?