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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

David Cameron has finally admitted that "integration is not working"

385 replies

WhetherOrNot · 20/07/2015 19:16

AIBU to think that he should have cottoned on about 10 years ago, not now when it is so glaringly obvious as to be an embarrassment for everyone?

OP posts:
ghostyslovesheep · 20/07/2015 19:55

yes I think white people have totally failed to integrate - this is an issue

Original poster
WhetherOrNot · 20/07/2015 19:56

I want to know what your point is and what your gripe with Muslims is.

Where have I said I have a gripe with Muslims YouTheCat. I think you ought to read the thread again!

What point?

OP posts:
lutra3d · 20/07/2015 19:58

Agree ghosty - the failure of some white Christians to integrate with others is concerning.

YouTheCat · 20/07/2015 19:59

Why start the thread if you haven't got some axe to grind then?

I have no problem with people integrating where I live. We all rub along just fine.

ghostyslovesheep · 20/07/2015 19:59

you seem very angry Whether

In other news 'David Cameron said it' isn't actual definitive proof of something being real or right

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/07/2015 19:59

I'm am immigrant in Canada. I drink tea, say 'bugger' and refuse to forget how to drive properly. Luckily Canadians have an ideology of wanting immigrants to be Canadian whilst respecting, celebrating and retaining their original culture. Melting pots don't work. Mosaic cultures do.

CorBlimeyTrousers · 20/07/2015 20:00

I think what you're being questioned on OP is your own assertion that the failure of integration is so obvious that it's an embarrassment to everyone.

It's not obvious to me or some other PP. Who do you have in mind - Muslims? My son has Muslim friends at school and I have Muslim colleagues at work. We all seem to get along well.

Kardamyli · 20/07/2015 20:05

Typical responses from the usual posters. There have been reports of young women, young men, families including babies leaving the UK to join ISIS, but you don't think there is any sort of problem with how all those people have integrated into UK society? If they had integrated, do you think they would still have upped and left to go to Syria?

And for those posting with the anecdata, do you have something more scientific to back up your claims?

ghostyslovesheep · 20/07/2015 20:08

yes and thousands of people HAVEN'T joined ISIS so that kind of proves it has worked really :)

brilliant

YouTheCat · 20/07/2015 20:09

How do you explain the fact that it is a tiny minority of people, not huge swathes of Muslims? And also, how about the fact that quite a few of the ones who have gone are at least second generation, if not third or fourth?

Icelandicsuperyoghurt · 20/07/2015 20:10

In specific areas throughout the country its definitely not working. In others its much better, so its probably not something that can be generalised on. The entire issue is so complex, with so many contributing factors.

CorBlimeyTrousers · 20/07/2015 20:10

I think those (including me) who offer our anecdotal stories are simply giving examples that 'failure of integration' is not inevitable and in many cases works very well.

How do the numbers of those who have gone to join IS etc compare to the overall number of Muslims in the country? I would expect it's a tiny minority but admittedly I don't have the figures to hand. Don't you think the answer might be to build better relationships between different communities?

Do you hold all Christians responsible for the behaviour of the very small number who harass women outside abortion clinics (and in the US sometimes kill doctors who perform abortions)?

ghostyslovesheep · 20/07/2015 20:10

oh and dismissing other peoples views as 'typical comments from the usual posters' is a bit rude - may be engage with the discussion?

ghostyslovesheep · 20/07/2015 20:13

probably a similar number to the 2nd 3rd and 4th generation of Irish Catholic immigrants who supported the IRA in the 70's and 80's I would imagine

yet I seemed to integrate quiet well despite the anti Irish shit that got thrown my way as a kid

Georgina1975 · 20/07/2015 20:13

Integration is possibly more of an issue outside of the metropolis? There are certainly racial and ethnic groupings in terms of housing where I live and this translates into education (primary and secondary). Segregation along there lines become embedded in the 1970s and is difficult to address.

It is not a "muslim" thing though. The latest tension in my community is between Eastern Europeans and (relatively new) Roma incomers.

I am actually most concerned (as stated upthread) about class/social segregation.

YouTheCat · 20/07/2015 20:15

I don't live anywhere near the capital, though I do live in a city.

charlestonchaplin · 20/07/2015 20:19

Many of these Islamic extremists have been born and bred in the UK, as has their extremism. I saw people becoming radicalised at my British university, deviating very strongly from their parents' values. I never saw these more militant attitudes in the country I grew up in which had a large Muslim population.

Things may have changed now, though. The world is changing, but I think many people fail to acknowledge the part western governments have played in creating the situation we have now. Muslim unhappiness about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have provided extremist preachers with material to use to whip up idealist young Muslims. Saddam Hussein kept a tight rein on that country. We called him a dictator and liberated the people. And unleashed chaos, which ISIS is taking advantage of.

We rejoiced in the Arab Spring. ISIS is taking advantage of the weaker governments now in place. And now we are tired of war so we leave ISIS to get on with it, forgetting that the world is now a small place and those conflicts won't remain restricted to faraway lands for ever. And since the UK doesn't have the balls to stop people returning to the country after fighting for ISIS we are in a precarious position. Guantanamo Bay is probably a horrible place, but it seems a very appealing proposition right now.

Wheretheresawill1 · 20/07/2015 20:21

Integration not working in this very Muslim city. There are complete areas now taken over my immigrants. Generations of families bought over here crammed in houses. Lots of non English speaking. Some areas comprise of Asian food stores, sari shops, takeaways; pharmacists; halal shops. I drove through one area and there were only Asian people in Asian attire. It needs to be seen to be believed and I felt like an outsider. There desperately needs to be more integration- it's shocking

Meechimoo · 20/07/2015 20:22

Trevor Phillips said that integration wasn't working. (and he's the black son of immigrants)
Impossible to discuss without lazy cries of "Oi, racist" though..

Wheretheresawill1 · 20/07/2015 20:22

And before I get accused of racism for having an opinion I had a Muslim boyfriend. You can imagine how that ended

YouTheCat · 20/07/2015 20:24

No one had mentioned 'racism' until you did, Meechimoo.

Meechimoo · 20/07/2015 20:25

Sure they did youthecat, or at least implied it.Hmm

pointythings · 20/07/2015 20:26

I think it's a bit simplistic to try to encapsulate a situation in which very many very complex factors are involved as 'integration is not working'. It's a cheap political soundbite, and all it will do is whip up yet more hatred towards Muslims, which will feed those wanting to radicalise young minds.

Meechimoo · 20/07/2015 20:28

It's a very complex issue and whatever Cameron or any Prime Minister did, they'd be thoroughly lambasted for it. It's a no win situation.

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