David Cameron has finally admitted that "integration is not working"

[WhetherOrNot]

AIBU to think that he should have cottoned on about 10 years ago, not now when it is so glaringly obvious as to be an embarrassment for everyone?

I'm no Tory supporter, but you have to admit that Cameron is under pressure to do something - citizens of this country are going to join up with a group that is more evil than anyone could have thought possible 10 years ago. IS are psychopaths and have declared themselves enemies of western civilization. Personally I think that nothing he can do will make much difference. You only have to look at facebook to see how unsophisticated, gullible and downright stupid many people are. Unfortunately anyone can write any twisted pack of lies and post it on a website and some people will believe it. They will even take their young children with them. I think this is the most serious unforeseen danger of the internet: it's rife with misinformation, paranoia and propaganda.

And to all of those calling me a racist, you should know that I am of mixed race, a mixture of 4 different races if I go back to my grandparents. The difference with families like mine is that they made the effort to Integrate, which is something too many immigrants today don't do.

Once British Catholics start trying to blow up airliners and beheading aid workers I'm sure the Govt will get wise to their dastardly antics.

So it's okay for Catholic priests to rape children. We should only concern ourselves when they start beheading foreign aid workers? Sorry, I don't agree with the moral values you have. A child has no choice in his abuse, but a foreign aid worker in a conflict zone made a choice to be there.

And I must have missed the news story about the IS trying to blow up airliners. Could you point me to that news story?

Kardamyli Jehovah's Witnesses don't go to parties or celebrate birthdays either... It just isn't part of some people's culture. Not going to primary school parties =/= potential extremist.

There has always been a healthy integration where I live...that is until recently.

The influx of people from overseas has been unprecedented..a good many ( not all I might add ) have come here to take advantage of our generous benefits system.

The UK is not up to speed with " vetting" immigrants and the validity of their documents such as ID.

Many a time I have witnessed at the medical centre ,people who claim to be someone with a very different name to that on their medical card.

On the flipside.. although not legally entitled to be in the UK and not paying taxes ( that can be said for many British nationals too) illegal immigrant seem to be by far the most industrious and civil newcomers

I'm not going to be very popular for saying that but that is my opinion..

Yes bastard dogooders trying to help people deserve to lose there heads.

I'd rather cut off my arm than go on a 'play date' with anyone - and I rarely attend school events due to work - OMG someone grab my passport

390,127 people declared their religion to be Jedi in the last Government census.

YouTheCat, I should have thought of a less mainstream example. how about some of the Grimm fairy tales? Rapunzel perhaps? Or do you know someone who has a belief system based on that too? Plenty more to choose from!

Ghostylovesheep, the question here is about integration, not child abuse.

But, to use your anti Catholic agenda as an example, the Rotherham scandal can only be compared to abuse carried out by 'catholics' or 'white males' if those latter two groups were in the habit of organising themselves into gangs specifically in order to target thousands of local young Muslim girls because they were somehow seen as lesser beings in comparison to white Christian girls.

Get it? In the case of Rotherham, the question of integration, or lack thereof, is key.

I think most of them were making a little joke Ellie. (At least I was!)

And to all of those calling me a racist, you should know that I am of mixed race, a mixture of 4 different races if I go back to my grandparents. The difference with families like mine is that they made the effort to Integrate, which is something too many immigrants today don't do.
Indeed. You have picked up racism very well. There is so much nationalism and bigotry in your posts I'd swear you were a white unemployed male.

No society has a place for people who value religion above the lives of others

Could we change that to No society has a place for people who value money above the lives of others

"Time for bed." Said Zebedee.

it's child abuse - organised child abuse - in Westminster that specifically targeted vulnerable and looked after children because they had access to them

was race an issue - yes -is it THE issue - not really - the protection of vulnerable young people is the issue (Muslim girls where also abused in Rotherham)

I don't have an anti Catholic agenda at all - but religion was an issue in the organised abuse of children there as well

hence the comparisons

child abuse needs addressing and preventing full stop - focussing on one group is counter productive

Frankie I agree re we could learn from each other if there was more integration. Total Catch 22.

The first step is if people could stop highlighting their differences and celebrate what makes us all similar. Never going to happen, but its something I try to do.

yes bed for me too

work tomorrow - with those pesky vulnerable kids - including the UASC ones

But, to use your anti Catholic agenda as an example, the Rotherham scandal can only be compared to abuse carried out by 'catholics' or 'white males' if those latter two groups were in the habit of organising themselves into gangs specifically in order to target thousands of local young Muslim girls because they were somehow seen as lesser beings in comparison to white Christian girls.

Does systematic, widespread and organised abuse of indigenous people count? Anglican Church... www.anglican.ca/tr/ Catholic Church didn't bother www.cccb.ca/site/eng/media-room/files/2630-apology-on-residential-schools-by-the-catholic-church www.cbc.ca/news/world/pope-expresses-sorrow-for-abuse-at-residential-schools-1.778019

ghosty you speak sense. In ALL of the child abuse scandals that have some to light in recent years, looked after children have featured heavily. The issue is definitely one of safeguarding vulnerable children.

To use this issue as a way of highlighting 'lack of integration' is bollocks, really. In my opinion.

Pratchett, are you being deliberately obtuse? The point about the Rotherham scandal is its relevance to the issue of a lack of integration between an immigrant population and surrounding indigenous population. Your attempts to compare the actions of Catholic or Anglican paedophiles with the actions of gangs of young Muslim men targeting young white girls pretty much on the basis of their race is bizarre. It's also a distraction from a difficult subject. Such a difficult subject in fact that the police refused to heed warnings of what was happening for fear of being branded as racist. Thank God it wasn't up to MN to blow the fucking whistle on that particular scandal.

I'm keen not to get too involved in the discussion. The usual suspects have or will come out soon and I can't bear to be sucked in but I would like to comment on a few things.

1. The idea that there are Asian/Muslim areas and that this is a problem is hilarious. Communities tend to gather in the same place. Jewish people have their own communities in London and China town is a tourist attraction!! How can you possibly feel an outsider because you have to bear the hideousness of passing by a sari shop or gasp a halal butchers. Btw. Most 'Muslim' shop areas are not Muslim. For example green street in London is full of Hindu Sikh and Muslims shops happily existing side by side as is Southall and Wembley. I'm

Pretty sure they are all happy to serve the entire community.

1. British values. I have never understood what this means. As a PP said how much of ones own religion culture rituals ceremonies clothing does one have to give up in order to be acceptably British??? And if the Muslims have to do it will you make all the other religions do so as well? Hindus Sikhs Jewish??
2. Integration. Lots and lots of people don't so play dates parent meet ups and what not. Kids will

Play together in school, Go to college, university, the workplace. It's pretty hard not to integrate. Yes there may be some who choose to be insular.

1. Muslims joining ISIS. Not sure why this is the main sticking point. Yes awful and horrendous but as a PP said 500 people have

Gone and that leave hundred of THOUSANDS who haven't. So just like the hundreds of murderers rapists and criminals in prison compared to all the law abiding citizens in the rest of the country. Don't see how it's proof of not integrating.

Kardamyli, I think the point is that I wouldn't mock anyone for their beliefs.

But you go right ahead.

That's the point YOU are trying to make about Rotherham so I get why you think that is the only point. I don't think Rotherham was about integration. It was about a far wider set of issues; massive, unreported child abuse; lack of reporting and belief when things are reported; girls' and women's rights being marginalized internationally; power and what it means; the patriarchy.

Yes, I think there may have been issues with racism in Rotherham, it probably delayed this dreadful abuse coming to light. However, children in care being ignored and abused is widespread and is a bigger issue.

And stop insulting people.

There are many people of many different religions and ethnic backgrounds who have integrated so fully into UK society they are unnoticed.

We only notice those minority groups that choose not to integrate. They stand out by definition. There are Jewish people and Pakistani Muslim families I know who fall into this category. I don't especially like the fact that they shun British culture and society so actively but it is a tolerant and free country and does me no harm.

However, only a very very tiny minority of unintegrated people choose to go and join extremist groups and go on to kill.

I imagine that number of people is a lot lower than the number of former British forces personnel who have gone to fight as mercenaries.

Its a question of proportion.