to insist our rules are stuck to?

[Nabuma]

Got our niece round for a sleepover. She's lovely but a handful with it. All the dc have made an almighty mess. At one stage dn sat on the floor and kicked her legs about, spreading Lego about the whole of the kitchen/diner. Not in a tantrum (she's nearly 5) but just for the sake of it. She can be a bit destructive at times. She was mildly admonished for this and stopped. But we've been coaxing her to tidy it up since lunchtime.

We took a break and went to the park and when we came back dh and I said that all dc were to tidy and whoever did got an icecream after tea. She has refused to tidy. So our dc have had an ice-cream but she has not been allowed one. She's now sobbing in the next room. I feel bad as she is not so used to hard and fast rules at home but dh has put his foot down. Awbu?

[tyaca]

I think the problem started when you said "Whoever tidies up, gets an ice-cream."

With a 4yo, esp one who hadn't started school, you're kind of setting yourself up for trouble here. You do have to follow through once you've said it.

I think I would have promised an icecream for all once it was tidied. Maybe your dn wouldn't have joined in this time or the next, but you and your dc would have modelled the behaviour so that in the future she would see that tidying was fun and a way to join in with everyone and be a good guy. Of course, in a years time, if you've done this with her half a dozen times and she's still not complying, then you may want to change strategy ;-)

It's easy to escalate these things, and even easier to lay down ultimatums where we have to escalate because we need to follow through on a consequence.

[SewingAndCakes]

YANBU. You were clear in your instruction and followed through with the consequences.

[LittleMissIntrovert]

YANBU your house your rules. She is old enough to understand, and it wouldn't be fair on your children if she got one anyway.

If they don't like it, they don't have to send her.

Whenever my kids go to play at other peoples houses I tell them they must follow their rules, and they might do things differently, but when you are a guest you follow them.

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

Good point mysteryfairy

[Nabuma]

Well food is often used as a reward at her home so there's some consistency there at least! And to clarify, I definitely don't think her parents are crap. Different certainly but there are lots of things that I admire in their parenting style and some I don't necessarily. Which I think is pretty standard. Fwiw I'm not trying to "correct" her behaviour, merely applying what I think are fair and reasonable rules to every child currently in my care. She's had sleepovers before and is comfortable here. This is the last of several nights in a row and I'm sure there will be sleepovers back and forth between our family throughout the hols. mystery I did explain that I'd been cuddling paying attention to dn, and that we've been discussing our exciting plans for tomorrow. Not increasing her distress in any way other than saying she doesn't get her reward.

[ThoseAwfulCurtains]

On sleepovers, I'd expect a relative to treat my child in the same way as their own. I wouldn't want them to make exceptions and treat my child as a special little snowflake.

Until my child was old enough to be treated like the relative's children, they wouldn't be staying over at all because they'd be too young.

YADNBU

[LostMySocks]

If my DS was at DSis I would expect Her to discipline both children the same way and likewise she would expect me to discipline DN. However mostly both up to mischief at the same time.

[LibrariesGaveUsPower]

Difficult one. I agree that the problem started with ice cream as reward for tidying.

I would have made tidying up obligatory before we left for the park. If your DH was available I'd have let the children who had tidied go on ahead and then tidied with her and followed on when done (and she had joined in).

[Nabuma]

tyaca that is good advice. I often use ultimatums when I'm finding it a bit difficult with the kids. And what I will take from this thread is that it's not a good idea to use food as an incentive. I guess that's a throwback from my childhood and I find it easy to use as it's not like we're cancelling a fun activity etc, just not letting her have a food treat. But easy isn't right. So, from the start what I would do differently would be to not issue an ultimatum. I use timeout/naughty step for my dcs but wouldn't for someone else's as they would run away and I wouldn't be happy frogmarching them back to the step again and again. So if a child who is not yours is misbehaving at your house, how would you deal with it? In the past couple of days we've had hitting, refusal to do simple tasks, bashing walls/furniture with toys and sort of mindless destruction. I don't want to ring bil/sil to collect her as I would worry it would.make her feel.rejected even more than not having a bloody icecream. And when she's behaving the kids have such a lovely time together and I want them to develop a relationship that I never had with my cousins/family. I do let a lot of undesirable behaviour slide but I'm not prepared to be a complete walk over as I feel it does a disservice to both dn and my children if it's tolerated too much. I want to be a great auntie but I don't want any of the children to think its a free for all when they get together.

[Nabuma]

I don't want to be a great auntie, too young for that!

[Murfles]

I fail to see how rewarding children for tidying and not rewarding one for not tidying is cruel. The OP never withheld food FFS. She don't give the child an ice cream. It's not as of she starved her DN. the DN didn't get an ice cream due to not following house rules. The ice cream was a treat not a dinner. I have kids cry and tantrum for not getting a star for their group due to not following instruction. This is due to parents not instilling rules and boundaries at home. Do I reward non compliance to instructions given? Certainly not, no matter how much they stamp their feet or scream.

I really don't understand why parents would condone their child not following someone else's house rules.

[Nabuma]

Yeah, think you're right there libraries part of it was because we wanted to pop into the pet shop and have a look before it closed. Perhaps I should have waited.
I am genuinely looking for suggestions of how to deal with acting up by other people's children though if any folk have any?

[Nabuma]

murfles your posts are making me feel a lot less guilty! I get that the world is a wonderful diverse place with people of differing backgrounds opinions but sometimes shit just needs to get done! I technically could have asked that dn picked up every last piece of Lego that she threw/kicked herself as my children weren't responsible for that bit of the mess. But I wanted them to work together and to not isolate her so I made it a team activity. We introduced the reward because it seemed a better idea than threatening a punishment. I prefer carrot to stick myself, even as an adult. I'm not sure how I was supposed to encourage her to take responsibility for what was her earlier bad behaviour. I'm buggered if I'm going to let the kids trash the place and then get on my hands and knees to tidy it. I did actually get my dd to explain that she tidied up at school and that it's what big girls and boys do. It fell on deaf ears.

[bobajob]

I treat my niece and nephew as I do my own children, not as a "guest". That includes expecting them to tidy up, or not jump on the furniture or whatever.

[lilacblossomtime]

I would have a kind but firm talk with visiting children if they misbehave. Put on your strictest head teacher voice and look very disappointed. If they did something that hurt another child I would make them apologize. If it was just something like not tidying I would say I expect you to do that properly next time.

[annielouise]

I also think you were wrong and set yourself up with the offer/threat of ice-cream/no ice-cream. Your kids know your rules. It's supposed to be a fun time but a little girl has been crying in her bedroom because she's not had an ice cream when her cousins have. You wouldn't have my DD back if you'd done this to her, even if she was a handful. She's had days away from her parents and she's 4, out of her . Cut her some slack.

She won't forget this. I had aunties like this. Growing up you don't say anything but years later they are most certainly not my favourites ones and they don't even get a Xmas card from me. My favourites? The ones that chucked the rules out the window when we were round and made life exciting and fun. There's going to be enough rules in her life. Not your job to curb her. Badly handled in my opinion.

[SnowBells]

YANBU. Even a 5-year-old can get the notion of:

tidying = ice cream
no tidying = no ice cream

For goodness sake, even my dogs can figure out what needs to be done to get rewarded.

This has nothing to do about the girl's parents imposing the same rules or not. She has been told what to do to get an ice cream.

[RiverTam]

She's a 4yo guest, YABU. Oh, and to all those wittering on about school, my DD is regularly rewarded at school for doing good tidying up, several times a week. She's crap at foung it at home, though! So the DN may well be perfectly fine At school.

[morethanpotatoprints]

YABU

You should have tidied together, got her to help you stood over her to do it and maybe made a game of red first, then yellow etc.
She is four and discipline is taught, not expected until they can actually do it for themselves.
Then you can use a reward system.

[annielouise]

Meant to say "out of her environment", which is bound to be stressful.

[Florriesma]

I was going to say Yabu initially but reading your posts you sound like a close extended family so no Yanbu.
It sounds like she's comfortable with your family and that a lot of contact will continue so it should be same rules for all. Otherwise you get resentment and arguing from all the kids not just one.

[Lurkedforever1]

Yanbu. Although I would have said we weren't going to the park till it was tidy. I'd never punish other kids for the actions of one, but peer pressure works better because long term it teaches them why anti social actions aren't in their interests, rather than you just being a moaning adult. And once the other kids had done their fair share I'd have told them to stop and give her 10 minutes either to tidy up or miss the park

[CalmYourselfTubbs]

YANBU.
she didn't do as she was told and she was already warned so she got nowt.
she has just learned a valuable lesson.

[Topseyt]

You were not at all unreasonable. Stick to your guns now.

She understood perfectly how to earn the ice cream. She didn't do it. So, no ice cream. She didn't think you would follow through, but she now understands perfectly that you will because you have.

Your house, your rules. Yes, it absolutely IS your place to enforce them, even though the child concerned may be a guest. Ignore the whinging, wailing and general histrionics.

Perhaps give her a task she could reasonably try to help you with. If she does that OK then she could earn a lesser treat, whilst you explain to her what is expected in your house, and that when you say something will be so then you mean it and will make it happen.

Four is not too young whoever's child she is.

[Nabuma]

annie that's a lot of emotive language there. I'm sorry that you didn't have a great relationship with some of your aunts, me neither and it sucks. I don't want to be that aunt. I want to be fair. How would you handle it. You've explained that I've handled it wrongly but how should I have dealt with it? I don't know if you read a bit up thread but today we have had from dn hitting, refusal to do anything not "fun" ( ie getting dressed, teeth brushed, bath ) and she has been antagonistic towards others. Should I have thrown out the rule book? I get that the ice cream incentive was a mistake but as much fun as I want to be as an aunt, that's a lot of negative behaviour to tolerate (and validate, in front of my dcs) for the sake of being a fun aunt. I've been upstairs and we've had a play around, and chat about what we're doing tomorrow. She's going to bed happy.