to insist our rules are stuck to?

[Nabuma]

Got our niece round for a sleepover. She's lovely but a handful with it. All the dc have made an almighty mess. At one stage dn sat on the floor and kicked her legs about, spreading Lego about the whole of the kitchen/diner. Not in a tantrum (she's nearly 5) but just for the sake of it. She can be a bit destructive at times. She was mildly admonished for this and stopped. But we've been coaxing her to tidy it up since lunchtime.

We took a break and went to the park and when we came back dh and I said that all dc were to tidy and whoever did got an icecream after tea. She has refused to tidy. So our dc have had an ice-cream but she has not been allowed one. She's now sobbing in the next room. I feel bad as she is not so used to hard and fast rules at home but dh has put his foot down. Awbu?

Everyone saying "oh she's only 4" - she'll be at school soon, as others have said, she's not going to be given special snowflake treatment there if she doesn't do what she's told, the OP is actually doing her a favour helping her to realise that her actions (or lack thereof) have consequences outside of her own lax home!

I'd have given her the icecream.

OP YANBU. Sod whether she is 4, rules are rules.

That statement was a complete assumption.

Do you mean my statement Murfles? When I said "I can understand that you have your rules and that your own DC are used to the rules being adhered to, but your 4 year old niece has not been able to gradually acclimatise to those rules over the 4 years of her life. Her parents haven't taught her them,"etc.

The rules I was referring to (that I was assuming the nieces's parents hadn't taught the niece) were the rules of Nabuma's home.

Yes, you are correct I am assuming the niece has not been taught them.

I still think that, but for all I know the child's parents may well have taught her everything she needs to know about her behavior in someone else's home.

Either way, I stand by everything I said.

She wasn't at school though. I don't think school has anything to do with it.

My kids could be horrors at home but were quite capable of following the school rules.

Hmmm some food for thought there. It seems petty to deny her doesn't it?

To me it seems petty yes. I wouldn't want someone elses child upset in my house for the sake of an ice cream and 'rules are rules'

She's not 2 - she's almost 5. More than capable of understanding a simple instruction. And more than capable of understanding that what she gets away with at home she might not get away with elsewhere.

She probably goes to nursery or playgroup and has to follow instructions there. I used to teach Reception and children who had never been told "No" were the bane of my life.

If she's given an ice-cream now without tidying up your own dc will resent you for behaving unfairly. She's played with her cousins, been to the park and had a lovely time. It's not your fault that she isn't getting an ice-cream. It's her fault for making a bad choice - and she can still earn it by choosing to stop crying and to come back in and tidy up.

If you give her ice cream without clearing up, what message does that give to your own children?

It seems petty to deny her doesn't it?

NO. Not petty at all. Please don't give in to her - it won't help anyone in the long run.
But do go in to her, give her a tissue and cuddle and ask if she's ready to help you tidy up.

I couldn't leave a four year old out while everyone else had icecream, it seems a bit harsh for the crime. I'd help her tidy up, if it doesn't happen at home maybe she does need to be actually shown how to do it. I'd be horrified if my nieces or nephews went home from my house upset just for the sake of a bit of mess from toys.

I would never give food as a reward.

We just tidy together as a family. I encourage everyone to pitch in and help. It's what they do at school/nursery too.

I can't imagine a school denying a kid pudding because they didn't tidy up.

I don't think it's petty. I'd ask her again to tidy up and help her earn it, but all you've done is give into her if you give her it.

4 is so little and so young, I'd feel crap about the outcome whether she deserves it or not. How old are the other children?

YA definitely NBU!

The rules were clear, the consequences explained.

I'm shocked at the number of people saying "but she's only four". That's plenty old enough to understand acceptable behaviour. I really do despair at the number of adults unable to set and enforce boundaries.

ADishBestEatenCold. Yes it was your comment actually.

I can't believe the amount of people on this thread who would actually reward one child who refused to follow instruction. The other children all followed instruction and got an ice cream. As the OP said her DN is nearly 5. She is not a baby or a toddler and should know how to follow instruction. OP does DN go to Nursery?

YANBU. She may be 'only 4' but she's old enough to start learning about actions and consequences. She's presumably going to be starting school soon so she won't be able to act like this for much longer. Someone needs to tell her if her parents won't

Don't give in and give her ice cream, that will just teach her that refusing to follow instructions and then throwing a strop will win rewards.

I would help her tidy to give her the opportunity to win the ice cream back.

YANBU in fact if my child had behaved like that at someones house and been rewarded with an ice cream I'd have been unhappy about it.

Children go to plenty of places where they have to follow rules and no way should a tantrum be rewarded what on earth is that teaching a child. Takes a village to raise a child and all that.

YANBU.

As another poster said, she'd be expected to tidy at school.

My DS2 is like this and got into big trouble at school last week for hiding when supposed to be tidying - I was very unimpressed with him.

Our house, our rules. Good lesson to learn early for lots of reasons.

I'd still feel crap about a 4 yr old sitting crying while the other kids eat ice creams.

Sorry I didn't realise there had been so many responses when I last posted. Trouble is we've had a few holidays and sleepovers all together before and so can see from my perspective where I think (and I'm not necessarily right) things maybe aren't going quite right at home. Of course her parents might see us as being too strict (and obvs some of you guys too). Her parents do discipline her at home to a degree but often things aren't followed through and she often uses tears to manipulate a situation. She starts school in Sept and I can foresee a steep learning curve for her which I don't think is fair. She is definitely not being excluded, currently all children are playing and laughing in the bedroom and she seems happy enough now. She's being denied an icecream, certainly not attention, cuddles etc. I think it's important that a child begins to learn that the two (rewards, treats etc and then love, affection) are separate to each other. If that makes sense. She's ok now which to my mind exposes how tears are used to great effect at home. She's a bright girl and now she's realised it doesn't work here has stopped moping. I have been treating them all the same...

School will be a shock!

I think you did the right thing OP by being consistent and sticking to what you had said would happen if she did not tidy up; but I agree that you should try to engineer a way for her to earn a treat now.

I'm shocked at the number of people saying "but she's only four". That's plenty old enough to understand acceptable behaviour. I really do despair at the number of adults unable to set and enforce boundaries.

Then they send their children to school and get upset when their child finds it hard to adapt to boundaries and rules. I often spend months when children start school getting them to follow very simple instructions ie "sit on the carpet for story time". Before anyone mentions SEN (as always happens on these threads). They are NOT included in the above.