to insist our rules are stuck to?

[Nabuma]

Got our niece round for a sleepover. She's lovely but a handful with it. All the dc have made an almighty mess. At one stage dn sat on the floor and kicked her legs about, spreading Lego about the whole of the kitchen/diner. Not in a tantrum (she's nearly 5) but just for the sake of it. She can be a bit destructive at times. She was mildly admonished for this and stopped. But we've been coaxing her to tidy it up since lunchtime.

We took a break and went to the park and when we came back dh and I said that all dc were to tidy and whoever did got an icecream after tea. She has refused to tidy. So our dc have had an ice-cream but she has not been allowed one. She's now sobbing in the next room. I feel bad as she is not so used to hard and fast rules at home but dh has put his foot down. Awbu?

[MayPolist]

YABU and petty.It is not on to punish a guest whilst you treat your own children.You are not her parent and not responsible for her upbringing.
Apart from anything else , how do you think this will be relayed back to her parents/extended family?
Nabuma gave both her kids icecreams and I just had to watch them eat them and cry.

[MayPolist]

I really hope she is YOUR neice and not your DH's?

[PurpleDaisies]

Nabuma gave both her kids icecreams and I just had to watch them eat them and cry.

My first question to the girl would be what she'd done to miss out on the ice cream. The op was clear what the consequences of not tidying up would be and followed through. Absolutely right in my book. Why does it matter whether she is "her niece" or her DH's?

[Alisvolatpropiis]

May if the little girl is the op's husbands brother or sisters child then she is also the op's niece...that's how it works, getting married,you marry into the family.

What a weird post.

[Florriesma]

Hmm maybe it's worth the yabu people reading the thread about the 12yo causing a nightmare holiday.

[JassyRadlett]

Alis, I totally agree. I'd be mortified if any of the aunts and uncles didn't feel they could treat my child in line with how they treat their own, according to age, if they're caring for my child.

[fattymcfatfat]

I have my DB to stay regularly. He's 13. I treat him as I would if mine were 13. If I tell him not to do something, then he doesn't do it, as for the past 6 years he has learnt that his behaviour has consequences when he's with me. Myself and my mum are very similar in parenting styles and both discipline the others child/ren. And yes, on occasion, when much younger, he has been known to cry (usually when he's been with my dad and got his own way all day) now he just strops and sulks at me. (quite amusing really, he's as tall as me now yet all it takes is one look and he backs down!)
All those saying the op is wrong, is it wrong of me to discipline my DB too? Should I pander to him because he's not my child?

[fattymcfatfat]

Must point out 6 years ago is when I moved out, and he started spending the night etc, without our mum there to deal with any misbehaviour

[LavenderLeigh]

But Nam tried several times to get her DNS to tidy up, and each time she refused. It wasn't a one off "do this or else", but a situation that had been going on for at least a couple of hours with lots of coaxing.
It's never nice to see a child cry, but missing out on a treat is not depriving her of food.
As for criticism of having a four year old to stay for a few days - unless you know the family involved and their circumstances, best not to jump to assumptions. Some children will be fine because they are comfortable there, it's their second home. Others might not be so comfortable but because of personal circumstances it's the best place for them to be at that time for all number of reasons.

[ElkTheory]

It's a tricky one. She's just a little girl, away from her parents for several days, from the sound of it playing up all day. Maybe she is homesick, feeling out of sorts because she's away from home and her own routine and the comforts of home. I would cut her some slack for those reasons.

OTOH, I definitely ascribe to the "it takes a village" mentality, and I can understand why you took a stand and then didn't want to back down. I like a PP's idea about not directly tying tidying up with the reward of ice cream. But I'm sure we have all painted ourselves into a corner with threats that we hadn't thought through. I think I would chalk this one up to experience.

[MayPolist]

There is a big difference between a blood relative niece and a niece by marriage

[PurpleDaisies]

You obviously have an unusual definition of family may. My blood nephew quite obviously prefers my husband to me. We both enforce rules with all our nieces and nephews if needs be, and both my sisters are grateful for it.

Much as they may protest, kids need boundaries for their safety and sense of security. If they are allowed to run riot and do exactly as they please they feel like no one cares about them.

[AliMonkey]

Some weird comments by posters about it being different if family than if friend's child, or different if blood relative than if relative by marriage.

I am closer to the children of some of my friends than I am to my DNs simply because I spend more time with them (as family not local). I am certainly closer to the friends than I or DH are to DH's sister. So why would it not be ok to insist they follow my ruled in my house? Having said that I would do the same for my DN.

[evelynj]

Op, I would have done exactly the same as you.

My dn is a bit of a handful, only child, 5yo, same age as my ds. My 2yo dd & ds were playing with dn a few weeks ago when I was encouraging them all to tidy. My dc were doing so willingly, (I think for a sweet reward-none of them were starving, it was a treat ffs), when dn pushed ds & I said don't do that & say sorry. She did but still didn't help tidy. When my back was turned I heard a noise, dd started crying & I turned around to see dd on the floor, evidently having been pushed by dn who denied it so I acted like I believed her. 2 mins later dn pushed ds again & I said in a cross voice 'dn, that is not nice come downstairs & tell your mummy what you've done', (doors were open to open living room so her mother had already overheard everything & son e she was there I though she should sort it to her 'methods'). When she was coaxed into speaking to her mum, who said 'it's alright darling you're not in trouble, just tell me what happened....' Dn said she'd pushed 2yo dd. So after 3 unprovoked pushes, the response from her mum was 'well good girl, thank you for telling me', followed by, 'you know darling, we shouldn't push people because......they might push us back

I despair!

I am more lenient on my dn because her parents don't really get how to instil discipline properly but I don't think you can allow other people's children to do what they like in your home. Even if another house is stricter or has different rules, children should be capable of following them for a while. Op, I think you're doing a great job. Just wondering if the posters who say you shouldn't use food as a treat, (which I understand), is it ok to say she can't play a game that others play next? I dont think
I've seen any alternative advice. The stickers are a good ideA but if your house doesn't normally use them should everyone just start because dn won't do what she's told!

[Alisvolatpropiis]

May you are the only person I've ever seen have that opinion.

AliM I think you mean my post? I meant if the guest child was one of the childrens friends, not a child of one of the op's friends as in, might not know the child well etc. Whereas as you say, if it's a child of one of your friends, you'll probably know them quite well and vice versa.

[youareallbonkers]

Great idea, use food as a reward...no wonder there are so many comfort eaters!

[OllyBJolly]

no wonder there are so many comfort eaters

Can I suggest that is largely because of a lack of self discipline stemming from never being set boundaries as a child? As pp say, kids need and want parameters. They have to learn to respect rules.

The OP handled this well.

[JassyRadlett]

Did you bother reading the thread, youareallbonkers? OP's acknowledged the issue there...

[honeyroar]

I think you did the right thing. No it hasn't achieved anything but a crying little girl today, but it hopefully may achieve something in the future..

And I have no idea why it makes a difference if it's your family or your husband's. I thought family is family.

[Sapat]

I don't think you should worry, she is probably not going to agree to another sleepover so problem solved!!!

I am very strict with my kids, but guests are treated well in my house, especially little ones, regardless of whether I am related to them. This said I think 4 is usually too young for a sleepover, kids are all over the place.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Goodness, usual levels of over-projection sneaking in here again!

The OP has already stated that her niece uses tears in a manipulative fashion to get her own way, and that this works on her parents. So "leaving a child sobbing in her bedroom" or anywhere else, is in fact a tactic that has worked for this particular 4yo many times before, just not in this case. It doesn't indicate stress, distress, cruelty or anything - merely a tantrum because the child has not got her own way. So those of you suggesting that the OP should give in to this, or "not have created this situation" - that's ridiculous. The child is creating her own "misery" to get her own way, having already got her own way by refusing to tidy up.

Bugger it, I said before, Nabuma, that YWNBU and even despite the emotive projecting from others, you're STILL NBU.

[Bakeoffcake]

God no, I wouldn't give my own 2dc an ice cream and leave my 4 year old niece or any other child out, for not following a rule.

My sister was a bit like you OP, She was a nanny before she had her own DC and was definitely one for the rules. She once banned my 3 year old dd from playing with any toys for an afternoon as my DD got 3 toys out of the toy box. Sisters rule was "only play with one toy at a time, a toy must be put away as soon as you stop playing with it". Well that may be ok but when you're 3 and not used to that rule, being punished for breaking this
ridiculous rule had my dd crying her eyes out too.

Whilst most 4 year olds are used to tidying up, your dn may not be, that's not her fault. It's her parents and it's not up to you to "teach her a lesson"


Tomorrow just say "right we're all tidying up now, let's all help each other, dc1 get the box, dc2 can you get all the big bricks, dneice can you help with the little bricks, I'll get the animals, oh aren't we doing well, what a team" etc etc. just chivvy them all along and get on with it.! (That's what happens in most schools by the way. A teacher won't let tidying up a box of Lego go on all bloody afternoon)

[Nabuma]

bakeoff have you rtft. It quite clearly wasn't that simple! And we quite clearly didn't spend the whole afternoon doing it, we went to the park and shops. Furthermore, I certainly don't think expecting a nearly 5 to pick up a mess they deliberately made for a small treat comparable to only allowing a three year old play with one toy at a time! With all due respect, you know very little about me and I'd rather not be compared to your (at the time) childless sister upsetting your dd who was too young to understand what was expected of her (I agree-bloody ridiculous rule of hers). The two scenarios are actually quite different. This wasn't three toys, this was at least 2000 pieces of Lego strewn about the kitchen diner where people could have hurt themselves accidentally standing on it. And whilst in future I wont introduce a food reward like that again I am certainly not going to upset my dc who were doing as they were told and set a precedent in front of them where they think it's acceptable to fuck around like that.

[Nabuma]

And, if anyone is still interested dn wont be round again, my decision, not hers. This morning she has already scratched dd enough to draw blood. After dd told me I comforted her and decided not to.make a big deal out of it with dn..I wasn't there at the time anyway so it would dds word against dn and I don't want to get into that. As dd was going back downstairs I heard her say to dn, "I told my mummy that you scratched me" and dn responded with, "yes, but she wont tell me off anyway." believe me, I'm not a stickler for the rules.

[nooka]

Bakeoffcake the OP has already said she tried that approach and the niece instead of engaging broke the box that was being used to tidy up. She clearly didn't want to help tidy and didn't intend to be compliant. So she didn't get a treat as a reward. And then was upset at the natural consequences of her behaviour. Later she cheered up and all was well again.

Sounds totally and utterly normal to me. Both my children went through stages like this (and ds for a fair few years). We tried sticker charts for ds and then he just cried about not getting the stickers! He had a particular issue with not getting cause and consequences long after expected though.

I was happy for my siblings and parents to discipline as they thought appropriate when my children stayed with them, and their rules were never quite the same as mine (again fairly normal I woudl have thought). The key is that I knew that they were loved and safe, even if there was the occasional upset.