To ask her to take a small step back from my children?

[OstentatiousBreastfeeder]

I'll try to keep it short!

FIL met his girlfriend two years ago. She's very nice in general, and the children really like her. She's young, the same age as DH actually (late twenties), and FIL doesn't want any more children - which she has accepted and is now very sure that she will never have children. I'm not sure, but I think this may be relevant.

Pretty early on though I started to feel a bit uncomfortable with certain things she'd do/say. Overstepping boundaries. Not long after meeting DS she designated a special nickname for herself that he could call her. There have been lots of little overfamiliar things which have made me cringe a bit, though nothing as weird as recently.

She and FIL asked if they could take DS to Legoland for a birthday treat. It was really lovely of them, DS was really excited as he'd been dying to go. The day came and they arrived to pick him up.

FIL was busy in the kitchen with DH so I went through a list of stuff I needed to pack DS for the day and realised I'd run out of plasters (DS trips over a lot), so I asked her if she had a first aid kit in the car just in case the inevitable happened and he skinned his knee. The look she gave me was scathing. She then said, "do you think I don't know how to look after four year olds?" She is a primary school teacher, so I don't know, maybe me asking whether she carried plasters with her was a slight on her professional ability somehow. I felt she was defensive I just said, "Oh good then" and she changed the subject.

So as they're about to leave I ask FIL to make sure DS gets one of those wristbands put on in case he wanders off somewhere. FIL just nodded, but she did a massive eyeroll at me and said "yes yes we know" - again I got the feeling she was being defensive. Then they left.

They all came back and had had a lovely time, and had taken lots of photos. She was flicking through them on the phone, showing them to me when she stopped on of them all with FIL's arms round them both and said "he really could be ours by looking at him couldn't he?" - Apparently lots of people in queues were mentioning how handsome their son was, and she laughed as she told me she didn't bother correcting them, and just said thank you very much. DS is mixed race, FIL is black and she is white - so an easy assumption to make.

The most recent incident was at DS' birthday party. She started to cry, but shrugged it off quickly saying they were happy tears and told people not to make a fuss. She drove me and the children home and I asked what it was all about and she said "oh, it's just DS looked at me and I just thought 'god I love him so much' and it just set me off, that's all"

Please tell me that this notion I have of her using my children to replace the children she has decided she won't have is nonsense, or, if not nonsense then completely harmless?

Ooh, also you may be doing her a favor. I can personally attest to the fact that most kids actually take a dim view of other adults who are rude to and undermine their parents. She may be willing to fight you and undermine you but once your kids are able to see it happen they may not be so keen on her.

Plenty of overzealous step moms and MILs and grandmothers often don't realize that kids can see them being rude to mum and don't like it.

If this were a MIL the answers would be different.
She does sound over-involved with your child-possibly seeing him as a substitute for a child she thinks she may never have.
I would not be unkind to her but I would make a bit of distance.
If she really wants kids and your FIL, who is older than her, doesn't then she will have to work that out for herself.
I feel sad for her but I don't think that you can tolerate her being rude to you and undermining you.

So if she were my actual MIL I'd be getting different advice here? Why?

Surely it's less acceptable for a woman we've known for two years to do and say these things, than it is for a woman who raised my DH and is related to my children. Doesn't make sense.

No, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The reason is that a lot of people on here have difficult relationships with their MILs and tend to project.
Sometimes the MIL can't let go and tries to put the DIL down.
Sometimes its more the DIL who is very touchy and wants her DH all to herself.

Because this woman is younger and in a difficult situation with her relationship she is getting more sympathy-posters can identify with her more.
I'm afraid ageism and projection comes into it.
Personally I dofeel for her but I don't think that you would be doing her, your son or yourself any favours by letting her pretend he's her child.
Quotes from your first post "He could be ours"..".I love him so much".
I hope she sorts things out and has a child herself-it sounds as if that is what she really wants.

If the comments are making both you and your DH uncomfortable, I think you need to address them at the time instead of having a big chat.

Maybe you could use the fact that she is a teacher as the "angle", i.e., not aproach it as "I'm the mother you are not", but more in a "I'm not your pupil way", even jokingly, like saying something about her teacher voice, or how she reminds you of your teacher Miss Smith when she speaks like that. (sorry not very imaginative or witty at the moment)

I sit on the take a big step back side of the fence.
Infertile or just with a man who has done his child rearing days and intends to do no more- that is not your problem.
Your children need a secure stable loving family unit-and it sounds a little bit like she would like to destabilize the family unit by undermining you. You are the mummy, and it is hard to imagine how the whole undermining of one of the two most important grownups in your son's life is messing with his head.

If a stepmother were to behave like this I think a lot of heckles would be up.

If I were a 28 year old woman I'd be buggered if some older guy who'd already had a family told me I couldn't have children. If that meant dumping him, then that's what I'd do. It would be different if it was someone who wasn't going to have their own children either, but if he's had his and is enjoying his relationship with them, it's cruel of him to have a relationship with a young woman who wants children.

If I were a 28 year old woman I'd be buggered if some older guy who'd already had a family told me I couldn't have children.

But he hasnt said she cant have children. He has said that he isnt having anymore children and she has chosen to accept this to be with him.

it's cruel of him to have a relationship with a young woman who wants children.

No it isnt, it is stupid of a younger woman who wants children to stay in a relationship with an older man who has made it clear that his baby days are over.

He has been honest. He has said that no matter what, he doesnt want more children. She has made the choice to sacrifice the children that she clearly wants in order to stay with him. As a result she is latching on to the OPs DS to fulfill the needs she obviously has for a child. Presumably she is either hoping that FIL will change his mind or they will have a "happy accident", neither of which will end well for her because I doubt he will change his mind or that any accident would be a happy one, for FIL at least and therefore for their relationship.

The upshot is that none of this is the FIL's fault, he has made his position clear and hasnt messed her about or lied to her (which as we all know, happens far too often and usually with men much younger than FIL).

She clearly needs to find a younger man that wants kids OP - assume she might come to this realisation on her own eventually ??

Regarding mother in law comparisons, I've spoken up for mother in laws too so I don't think I'm being inconsistent.

I'm an older mum so spent a number of years in the role of the childless friend. Some people are incredibly patronising and hurtful towards childless women. I'm not saying the op is doing this but others certainly will be and I can fully understand this woman rolling her eyes or getting tearful at times, especially at the child's birthday party where she'd probably been on the receiving end of crass comments all the way through. (Been there, done that.)

She's not doing everything right but it seems to me that she's trying to make a difficult and unusual situation work. And it can work with a bit of goodwill on all sides.

If you really have to say something, op then I think MeeWhoo's suggestion of approaching it from the 'you're not my teacher' angle is a good one.

an Mumsnet Certified Acceptable Excuse i.e. infertility

lovely.

It would also appear to be incorrect as the op has said this woman is using contraception.

I don't see you as jealous at all, OP. But I do think your FIL's girlfriend has a massive yearning to have her own child, and is using your DS as a surrogate to attempt to fill that gap.

I can understand your FIL's feelings - having a child younger than his grandchildren could be awkward, but others have done it - but I also think he's being unfair to his GF if she really secretly does want children. But that's their fight and their problem - in the meantime, your DS doesn't need any more parents, he's got you and his dad, so yes, I think it would be reasonable to try and get them to back off a bit.

She needs to sort herself out really - if she wants kids so much, she either needs to renegotiate with your FIL or find someone else who wants children with her.

TwinPiques

Actually it's true. This woman insisted that the OP didn't know how to do her own daughter's hair and got her FIL to intervene.

People here are determined to see her as a victim no matter how badly she behaves - and that's fine - but we should just be explicit about it.

The OP must stand in for "society" and it's mistreatment of childless women by allowing this woman to mistreat and insult her. It's the only way. The OPis prob a smug bitch anyway, right? How dare she ask about plasters!

Sneer as much as you like but being a childless woman (whether by choice or not) surrounded by parents is no joke.

I certainly don't see this woman as a victim - I just see a woman in a difficult situation, blundering around a bit but essentially trying to do her best.

Bowing out now. Good day to you all.

What about her behavior makes you think she is trying to do her best?

• the part where she rolls her eyes and gives scathing looks to the OP
• the part where she insisted that the OP doesn't know how brush her own daughter's hair
• the part where they are moving to be closer to her daughter without even discussing it with her or her DH!

Like I said, i we are going to act like she's BARREN and CHILDLESS (actually she's not, she is choosing not to behave children and she's young enough to leave if she wants kids) and clearly this is a fate worse than death, then fine. Don't you think you increase the stigma of childlessness if you act like women are so emotionally fragile and weak and so pointless without children that any behavior they engage in should be forgiven.

Why not just chalk it up to PMS if we're going to traffic in damaging stereotypes about women?