A school trip is over subscribed, a draw will take place, there's a possibility that only one twin will be picked.

[MyballsareSandy]

AIBU to think that a set of twins should be counted as one in this situation? Or is that completely unfair on the rest of the class? I really can't make my mind up.

I don't want to say too much but it's a massive trip, we aren't talking about a day out. Ten days away abroad, long flight.

It hasn't happened yet so I'm possibly worrying about nothing, but if one is left out they'll be so upset. Year 9.

Do you mean that there aren't enough places for everyone, Million, or that it is expensive?

I had similar happen with a guide trip with my two girls (not twins but a 13 month age gap). The elder girl got picked for a trip but the younger one didn't. The elder one didn't want to go without her sister so we told them to give her place to someone else.

You can't demand a place for your other child, twin or not, because that's just not fair on the others.

Yeah, YABU Sandy. Talk to them in advance. If they were in following years and the trip ran oversubscribed every year, there would be the same issue of maybe one sibling getting to go and the other not. This is no different, it just feels different because it will be the same year's trip. They are probably worrying about it less than you! My friend's twins had one pass and one fail the eleven plus. They just got on with it.

Well I'm going to go against the prevailing view on the thread. I am an only child and I have an only child. Yet I totally agree that if you have twins/triplets/Irish twins in the same year/class, they should both get to go or neither goes. It's different to having kids in different year groups because there are different trips and if you don't go on one you might go on another and trips don't necessarily run every year anyway (in my son's school there's generally a year 8 trip to Germany but it's not happening this year).

I don't like ballots anyway. At my school it was first come first served so you had to get to the staff room with your reply slip pronto. That meant that those who really wanted to go made the effort, got into school on time and dropped their slip in. A ballot makes no difference to having to find the deposit as you generally have to provide the deposit when you put your slip into the ballot anyway.

I think they are genuine ballots by the way, I don't think they give priority to those who are fantastic at the language at the country being visited, or take the names out of those kids who might misbehave.

First in first served is not a fair system. Some parents work full time and can't be standing at the office at an arbitrary time to drop off a form. Some parents need more time to save up a deposit. Wealthy families with a stay at home parent are essentially being given priority over this system.

If one can't go then don't let the other, if you want it to be fair. although you are probably worrying about nothing seeing as the chances of one of them being drawn out is quite slim

Its the school that has cocked up here. They have failed to organise this properly and as a result some kids who have their hopes raised may be disappointed. It sounds like a shambles.
10 days and a long haul flight? I am sure there are plenty places with educational value closer to home.

If the trip can't accommodate all those who want to go then an alternative should be found.

I would speak to the head teacher.
I don't really agree with these expensive trips.

Last year our school offered a trip to the Arctic (£4000) and a trip to the Amazonian rainforest (£7000) and this is a state comprehensive.
There were man takers for these trips, but it pisses me off because all the kids that went were the ones who have been abroad many many times with their parents, and have regular annual holidays skiiing, Mexico etc.
I know a few teenagers who have never even been abroad as their parents can't afford it- these families also can't afford £7000 for a school trip.
Its very exclusive.

Loved all the maths, and now I think that actually YWNBU to ask for both their names on the same ticket.

I have a sister 17 months younger. It would have been really tough for us in a similar situation.

We would have dealt with it, but it would have been hard on the person not picked. And even a bit on the one who was going.

We weren't even in the same year.

It is a state school. The trip is to Africa.

A few posters have said that by this age, they are surprised my girls haven't come across this before. They have always been invited to different parties/sleepovers etc, never a problem with that, all very healthy I believe. Primary school trips tend to include the whole class/year, so again not a problem. This is the first trip they've wanted to do in secondary. They turned down ski-ing and Spain with this in mind, knowing this was coming up in year 9. So, no, they haven't experienced this before.

I wouldn't have a problem at all with one going to a grammer and one to a high school - in fact one of them did sit 11+ but didn't pass. This is completely different. And in that situation, yes, they would have done different school trips, obviously. But they aren't in separate schools, so not relevant.

But I do accept I may be being unreasonable .

There's no point in worrying about it, we will know by the end of the week. One of my DDs has resigned herself to the fact that she won't go, she believes behaviour will be taken into account and she's had a few detentions this year. Her sister has an unblemished record.

Can't afford to do it as a family trip, would cost much more.

I loved the maths too .

With my twins I asked if both could go or both not go as didn't feel was fair for one to go on a fancy trip and not the other.

Happened to mine. DT2 went on the school ski trip, DT1 didn't.
If they know it's a ballot & are prepared to take the risk then it's a possible outcome.
A life lesson.

Zarz I think odds are about 50:50 /0 that both will be picked

I'm even surprised that they are both in the same class. Ime schools usually separate twins if it is practicable ( so mor Ethan one class per year).

I have twins, I couldn't really let one go on a major trip for ten days and not the other so if one was drawn only then they wouldn't be able to go.

My friends who are teachers say the 'draw' is just an excuse to leave naughty kids at home. No actual draw takes place!

Parent of twins here

This is SO tricksy. The school have bollocksed it imo

I think yanbu

I'd agree with them first that both go or neither. If neither, use the considerable quids saved and take them to centerparcs

Probabilities HERE

56% of both boys getting a spot as per PPs.

I think the odds of only one boy getting a spot is more relevant. It's not a problem if each boy gets the same outcome, it's only a problem if the get different outcomes. Iyswim

Typo - for not of

So there is a 62.5 % chance of a 'good' outcome and a 37.5 chance of a 'bad' outcome.

(I got a C in my O'level maths several kabillion years ago so it's possible I'm talking shite - in fact, let me work out the probability that I'm talking shite...... )

I have twins. I think this is really hard. Of course there have been times when one has had the opportunity to do something that the other hasn't, and they need to be prepared for that. I do though think it is harder for twins (or siblings in the same year) if one gets to do something major that the other doesn't, for example if DD1 missed out, it would add to her upset that DD2 was going away with her (DD1's) friends, and the reminder of the disappointment is more constant and immeidate. I appreciate there are scenarios when the same would be true of siblings in different years, eg a school trip covering more than one school year.
However, even though it is hard I do think the only options are to go with the draw or to say that if only one is picked, neither goes (and to let the teacher know that in advance). I think all you can do it talk it through with them in advance to prepare them, and let them to decide on which option.

BTW I find it outrageous that teachers fiddle the results of draws. I could understand if the students were told that their behaviour will be taken into consideration beforehand but to do it on the sly is dishonest. So much for transparency.

It seems crazy to use behaviour as a secret reason for not taking certain pupils on school trips. If behaviour is going to be relevant to any final draw, tell everyone at as an early opportunity as possible. It would be a massive incentive for good behaviour (at least amongst those who have a chance of affording to go in the first place).

That would be unreasonable; ask that neither child goes into the draw and take them on a trip separately yourself.

I think it's a shame the school didn't notice the potential for this problem before if kids have given up previous trips because they hope to go on this one. That's such a shame for them to have [potentially] missed out on every trip.