to give a limited number of religious vetos for school trips

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My DS's school is trying to organise a school trip to the far east to encourage the development of new language courses they have put on offer recently.

The person organising quite a complicated trip is being asked by a number of parents about not flying on certain days, not using public transport on those days when away, asking that all food follows religious rules for their children - I feel the organiser will spend more time accommodating this group to the detriment of the trip as a whole.

My memories of trips to the Far East is all about the food because it is so different, seems a shame half the group will miss out but that is their concern I guess.

AIBU to suggest we put a limit to the number of restrictions? (slightly tongue in cheek here ) but would be interested if any other parents have encountered anything similar?

Maybe the atheists should get some protection from too many restrictions foisted upon them.

Pico2, I think that it has to do with ensuring the purity of the bloodline. As you actually come out of your mother there can be no disputing that she is your mother and therefore you definitely have Jewish blood. I think the idea is that paternity is often a lot more ambiguous and therefore if it went through the father (where the wife was non-Jewish) it would be a lot more likely that someone with no Jewish blood at all would pass in.

OurDearLeader - I get that, but it isn't how other ethnicities or races work, so why can the definition of race/ethnicity be different here?

Well limited as far as I am concerned you don't have any business calling yourself Catholic as you do not believe in the faith which is a essential part of it. Your tribe as you call it is not Catholic as it truly means and I am pretty sure Jesus would have no truck with that sort of attitude. I and my children are Roman Catholic in the true spirit of the faith and certainly in the eyes of the Pope. There are plenty of people raised Catholic who no longer believe and who have no trouble referring to themselves as atheist. I find referring to tribes as very divisive and certainly does nothing to discourage bigotry and prejudice. Being Catholic is not a tribe but rather it is living out the faith in as kind and compassionate way as possible and welcoming people who wish to join into the fold rather than pushing them away.

there's no such thing as race biologically or scientifically. I guess what I mean by it is that Jews are on the whole more closely related to each other than we are to non-Jews, and genetically more similar. Complex isn't it?

Yes, I agree completely, CactusAnnie. And complex is definitely the word for it! :)

Okay buffyp

buffy, you would be ethnically Jewish. It has more to do (historically) with how other members of the Jewish community would view you. So if your mother wasn't Jewish it would be very unlikely that those whose Jewishness was undisputed would be marrying you or having children with you. So if you had children it would be with someone non-Jewish, ditto for them and their children and very soon their descendants would have totally assimilated as non-Jewish and probably wouldn't even know they were non-Jewish. But the (perceived) risk of the bloodline being diluted by someone with absolutely no Jewish blood at all would have been averted, and the link back to Israel would remain unbroken. But as Annie said this isn't the case for all but the most Orthodox Jewish. But I know in Higher Broughton it's virtually unheard of and that when it has happened parents have sat mourning (shiva) for their children and treat it that they have died.

A lot of it stems from a belief that the Jewish are God's chosen people with a special and unique purpose and that status is conferred by being descended from the ancient Israelites.

I agree completely with buffy. After all Jesus didn't say the Good Samaritan walked past the Pharisee because he 'wasn't one of his tribe'.

buffyp thinking about it, I find that that I fundamentally disagree with converts such as you. I might not, but IME I do.

Outsiders attracted to Roman Catholicism are generally more dogmatic than people born within it.

I was born into the RC faith but there many aspects of the dogma that I reject.

You have chosen to embrace them.

I disagree with you.

However, I remain part of the born Roman Catholic tribe who are culturally allied and that you would probably be unable to join, though Iwouldn't exclude you.

I was born into the faith and the culture.

You chose to join it.

That's the difference.

Jews , Muslims, Christians, Rasta, atheists, brown, yellow, white, black or blue are all one race- human

Humans are a species, not a race. A race is a sub division within a species.

Yep, you - randomer on the internet - know better than all those before you. The law says Judaism is a race but the law is a crock of shite, right?
Arrogant or what?!

Well the law also says Muslims, Hindus, Indians & Pakistanis are a race. Do you think that's true?

The law is made to avoid discrimination on various grounds, not to be a demonstration of evolutionary biology!

Cactus I think I am more confused. Do you mean the appearance has changed because of inter marriage or rape or are you say it just changed? Sorry I must be having a senior moment.

there's no such thing as race biologically or scientifically. I guess what I mean by it is that Jews are on the whole more closely related to each other than we are to non-Jews, and genetically more similar. Complex isn't it?

I agree to an extend. It is complex, and it is certainly a moveable feast. Definitions of various races are changing as our exploration of the human genome continues.

But race does exist within a scientific context at any given point, although it may change at some time in the future.

I think most people would agree that Mo Farrah & Twiggy are not the same race. Both English, but a different race.

One thing we can say about race is that it is fixed. One can renounce Judaism, or convert to it. One cannot renounce being black or white, or convert one to another.

If someone told me tomorrow that Mo Farrah & Twiggy were both Jewish, (and they may well be, I have no idea), it wouldn't change my opinion that they are different races. But if Jews are a race, they cannot be different races????

I'll say it one more time. Race has fuck all to do with evolutionary biology... It is not a scientific category it is a social one. In biological terms humans have only one species and only one subspecies. Race is whatever someone agrees it is at a time... A few centuries ago it was defined along the lines of language, now we define it by skin colour. The term itself is becoming increasingly irrelevant as we now tend to talk in terms of ethnic groups which is a bit more nuanced.

TTWK I'd give it a rest. You're embarrassing yourself. You're holding forth on a subject like you're an expert. But it's glaringly obvious to anyone who has even a passing knowledge that you have almost zero knowledge of what you're talking about.

*However, I remain part of the born Roman Catholic tribe who are culturally allied and that you would probably be unable to join, though Iwouldn't exclude you.

I was born into the faith and the culture.

You chose to join it.

That's the difference.*

Well I was born into a Catholic family and disagree entirely with what you have said. I am not a Catholic. I don't feel remotely culturally allied to any "Catholic tribe"

I think most people would agree that Mo Farrah & Twiggy are not the same race. Both English, but a different race

Yes they are. There is one human race homo sapiens. Race is an artificial construct of dubious origins. It's a great pity it was ever thought of. It's a great pity that fighting idiotic prejudices based on what someone looks like according to their DNA became caught up in the language of "race" as it merely perpetuates the notion of different races.

There are plenty of people raised Catholic who no longer believe and who have no trouble referring to themselves as atheist.

^ this is me (except agnostic rather than atheist). I don't feel part of a tribe though I suppose that if pushed I would say I felt broadly Christian as opposed to another "more removed from my experience" religion.

A lot of it stems from a belief that the Jewish are God's chosen people with a special and unique purpose

Don't all religions believe a similar thing about their adherents?

Yes they are. There is one human race homo sapiens. Race is an artificial construct of dubious origins. It's a great pity it was ever thought of. It's a great pity that fighting idiotic prejudices based on what someone looks like according to their DNA became caught up in the language of "race" as it merely perpetuates the notion of different races.

if that's true, then Jews are not a race, as we're all one race. And as I said at the outset Jews were not a race, I win either way!

I think DNA has proved we all came from the African Rift Valley, so perhaps you are right.

I am very strongly reminded of something I heard on TV last week... This is like playing chess with a pigeon. However well you play the pigeon is still going to shit all over the board and then strut around like it won the game.

On the catholism, being an Irish Roman Catholic is to an extent more than a faith, it does have quite a lot of history and culture tied in that is specific to Irish Roman Catholics, rather than catholics world wide. Not on the scale of Judaism but still a lot of history of repression and discrimination when England decided they fancied having Ireland. And while I'm an atheist and I don't call myself Irish (I'm not unless you say like many English people I'm a few generations removed) like many others I consider the Irish Roman Catholic faith/ culture part of my history and culture and certainly identify with it.

FuzzyWizard

Excellent quote fuzzy