To expect DH to get a vasectomy

[elderfloweriver]

We have two, nearly three children, a mix of boys and girls (if that's relevant) and no3 was unplanned.

We hit a rocky stage in our marriage and I asked him to leave for a bit. He did so. Now we are back together but I have to admit I didn't want 3 DCs.

I won't use hormonal contraception and so now our family is complete I feel DH should look into having a vasectomy - I just CAN'T have four children!

But I can't work out whether this is reasonable and fair or controlling?

What do you think?

OP knows and has previously acknowledged he is controlling and financially and sexually abusive and has already separated, then reconciled. Many posters including myself have provided her with WA details etc on previous threads.

It isn't a case of Op suddenly realising it on this thread despite the way the thread has gone. The sad thing is that that when this thread dies down, OP will post another thread tomorrow or next week or whenever about a new job or her bank account or something else, all the info will come out again, OP will be urged to leave and then that thread will die down and it will happen again.

I have every sympathy for the situation OP is in. Every sympathy. I have personal experience of abuse and so I sincerely and genuinely hope she manages to get herself away from it.

What I find sad is that so many people take each thread at face value when they start off innocuously, there's a little bit of a bunfight, more true info is revealed and OP is advised once again her DH is abusive and she should leave. And each time acts as though it's the first time she's heard it. It's a little disingenuous when you're fully aware of the situation you are in but wilfully ignore it and keep exposing your children to this awful dynamic.

I'm not sure anyone can say anything here that will persaude OP to finally leave and it's a little disengenous of her to act as though her eyes are being opened on every single thread. The truth is she knows the situation she is in and chooses to remain. Her choice of course but she is, unlike the impression she has given here, fully aware of this choice she is making.

When the OP started this thread I was unaware that there is a massive backstory, I could only find one other thread started by her. She has my sympathy but she is needlessly focusing on sterilisation when she actually needs to end the relationship. Trying to convince an abusive husband to get a vasectomy as a way of proving to the OP that he loves her is a complete waste of time and it is unnecessary. It is no concern of the OP's if they split up and he has more children with somebody else, it happens.

I honestly wish Elder the best and had I been aware of the backstory my advice would have been different from the beginning.

Im not sure making her feel bad about posting is going to be helpful in encouraging her to leave Purple.

Considering that the message from WA is not to judge an abused woman's difficulties in leaving I agree with you Angeale

Perhaps people might stop to think about how it feels to have absolutely no one in terms of friends or family to turn to?

I have read this and recognise the op, and I could be wrong but IT sounds like she's got so used to thinking she's the bad guy that she brings that to the threads.

Some people here will have excacerbated that with their comments.

I felt really upset when she said the kindness here helped. It sounds to me like she comes on here for the kindness and reassurance as she just sounds starved of it but if I read Purples message, I would probably go off and not come back.

Not sure why it appeared in capitals!

I'm not judging her difficulties in leaving. As I said I every sympathy for the actual situation OP is in (sorry to talk about you as though you aren't here btw).

What I have a problem with is the disengenous nature of these threads where she acts as though she doesn't realise he is abusive, when in fact she is very aware, to the point she did leave incidentally.

I have sympathy for the Op, but I have more sympathy for her children as their parents are the ones who should be keeping them safe. She was aware he could not have unsupervised access to them when she left yet chose to return to this situation. As I said, her choice, but then to act as though she doesn't know the situation she is in, and receiving the same well meaning advice as though it's the first time she has heard it, isn't helping anyone.

Op has the facts, she has had the advice, if she chooses not to act on it that is her choice but it's disengenous to act as though she isn't in possession of the full facts of her situation.

I said earlier that MN isn't necessarily kind but it's very good for advice, sometimes the best advice isn't kind but that doesn't make it wrong, if that makes sense.

Angeale, I have and many others have indeed been kind to OP in the past, given advice, on thread and off thread.

I should have walked away from the thread earlier. I realise, but lots of posters are in a very well meaning way reiterating this advice as OP is acting as though she hasn't had it before.

There comes a point when the only person who can actually help OP and her children, is HER. I think she is at this point.

YABU. There are so many options these days. What about the copper coil? It's painless, completely hormone free and safe for ten years

I don't personally feel she is likely to do so with somebody telling her she is ignoring advice, being a drama llama and people are repeating themselves.

That wouldn't empower me; it would make me feel awful.

From what she said she took him back because she was scared of him taking the children, or did I read that wrongly?

I really should walk away as I am over invested here, I realise that.

Angeale, I do understand what you are saying, honestly. And advice is never wasted as it may benefit others as well as OP.

I suppose for me, it's thinking about children in a position of harm. And the DC are being harmed, being brought up in this situation (again, discussed with OP on other threads). How long do people, I'm also thinking of social services for example, attempt to empower people with support and advice, before accepting that people cannot for whatever reason act on that advice, and other routes need to be taken?

As I said, I have a relative involved with an abusive partner, every few weeks there was a phone call or visit for support, yet every time she went back into the situation with her children. It came to a point where I had to disengage and just let authorities deal with it.

You can't hair stroke forever sadly, as much as your first instinct is to support and advise particularly where DC are involved. At some point you have to say well, you are making the choice to remain And I can no longer supoort this. I think OP is at this point but people aren't realising as she is presenting the situation so disengenously.

And I really am off. OP, my intention is genuinely to help you not just put the boot in and I really hope you manage to leave.

She didn't leave and choose to return. She got him to leave and he's apparently back in the house because he managed to regain access to the children.

I'm sure my friends got tired of hearing me complain about the same abuse over and over. I'm sure they told each other 'if we've told her once, we've told her 1000 times to leave'. But they kept listening and kept telling, just as I'll keep telling any abused person that they need to leave. I'll just keep hoping that some day, it will be that 1001th time, and they'll leave.

Elder, I know it seems 'hopeless', but it isn't. You just have to take one small step to start the journey. It could be as little as putting a few £ in a shoebox and putting it on a shelf for an 'escape fund' or as major as taking the children and walking out with nothing. It's up to you. Just take your small step. It doesn't have to be something he will notice, some 'grand gesture'. It doesn't have to be anything irrevocable. Mine was taking a grocery bag and putting a set of clothes in it and hiding it in a closet. I didn't leave then, but it helped me to know I had 'spare clothes' to grab and run if I wanted to.

Please, just try to start thinking about a future without him. Your thoughts are yours, he can't take those from you.

I remember a friend of mine whose ex husband actually kidnapped the children, he just refused to give them back after they spent the weekend with him. I can see how staying can seem like the right thing to do. I'm not saying it is but she's pregnant and she sounds frightened and very lonely and sad to me.

I don't think anyone has the right to tell another human being what to do with their body. If he doesn't want to have surgery, then it's not reasonable for you to demand it. Maybe condoms, if you don't want to rely on hormonal contraception? Or an old fashioned (non-mirena) coil? There are options you can explore. Good luck!

Purple.

You are judging her difficulties very openly and obviously putting a disclaimer in saying that your not but then doing so does not change what your saying.

The op is correct that yes he would end up with unsupervised contact and quite a lot of it more than likely within a few months.
She also knows her husband better than anyone else and will know if he's likely to use the courts as a stick to beat her with

Her situation is not unusual and neither is her reason for staying. It's often much harder to leave an abuser when they haven't seriously injured you very visibly in a none potentially legally subjective way than when they have broken both your legs and attempted to kill you and the reason for that is rarely to do with the "buuuut I love him" everybody assumes it is.

When trying to help or support a victim of abuse it's never a great idea to come across like a harsh or bossy type or do the but you don't help yourself thing because that's one of the things the victim has to stop listening to in order to leave or recover

I'm obviously not explaining myself well and i think part of it is not wanting to bring up things that OP has said on other threads, under name changes as it feels like a breach of her privacy. OP has name changed quite a bit over time but gives out very identifying info rendering her very recognisable.

If she posted here 1001 times in a day saying "I know my DH is abusive but I can't bring myself to leave him" it would be completely understandable. What isn't so understandable, to me, is posting multiple threads over time, some of which are saying her DH is horrifically sexually abusive, financially abusive, controlling, a risk to the Her and the DC, then more threads saying he has left him and he can't have the DC unsupervised, then another thread comes up saying, oh by the way, we have had a "rocky patch" but reconciled is she BU expecting him to get the snip, drip feeding all the info again then acting surprised when we say he is abusive and starting the whole conversations which she has had multiple times, as though they haven't happened at all.

She didn't leave him recently - she asked him to leave.

I completely understand you Purple

You are making perfect sense to me.

I understand you purple but I disagree. I think you're probably making someone who already feels bad feel even worse and that's not something to be proud of, even though you 'can spot her name changes.'

I actually believed you weren't trying to be nasty until that last post.

Now I just think you've taken a dislike to the op for some reason and are trying to discredit her. You know full well posts like yours above are against the guidelines.

Carry on insisting you're 'trying to be kind' - you're just showing you're either a liar or deluded!

I just want to say:

OP, things in RL are shit for you, and I don't blame you for your posts here. I can entirely see why you're focusing on the contraception issue, and also, you're right: if he is happy to force responsibility for contraception solely on to your shoulders, and doesn't see that a sterilisation procedure is a further demand on your body, it is emblematic of his attitude towards you.

I don't see how it couldn't be.

OP, and I hope you can get support in RL.

If she posted here 1001 times in a day saying "I know my DH is abusive but I can't bring myself to leave him" it would be completely understandable. What isn't so understandable, to me, is posting multiple threads over time, some of which are saying her DH is horrifically sexually abusive, financially abusive, controlling, a risk to the Her and the DC, then more threads saying he has left him and he can't have the DC unsupervised, then another thread comes up saying, oh by the way, we have had a "rocky patch" but reconciled is she BU expecting him to get the snip, drip feeding all the info again then acting surprised when we say he is abusive and starting the whole conversations which she has had multiple times, as though they haven't happened at all

On average a woman will be seriously physically assaulted about 37 times before she gets the courage to ask for help.

On average a woman will make 7 attempts to leave before she finally does

A woman is significantly more at risk of being murdered or very seriously injured at the point of leaving and for about a year afterwards.

Less than 6% of woman experienced violence from a partner within the first month of the relationship 51% of women who experienced it did so well after a year or after a serious commitment such as pregnancy or marriage or house purchase had happened.

Violent men spend almost every minute grooming their victim sometimes for years before they become violent or sexually coercive or rape, almost every single victim of domestic abuse has experienced a very clever form of subtle preparation and grooming involving isolation,indulgences, intense self esteem wrecking,boundary pushing,guilt,and grief before they even get to fear.

Amnesty international compare the effects of domestic abuse to the effects of sustained torture.

That should provide a tiny tiny idea of why people experiencing it may not have the same outlook as someone else or why they may be all over the place emotionally one day doubting themselves the next having clarity.

It's also why no respected DA org would ever advise taking an approach towards victims that could be perceived as bullying or forceful or taking such an interest into the motives of a help seeking plea.