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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to be sick of all the 'othering' on these boards?

264 replies

BishopBrennansArse · 30/06/2015 17:48

I've just about had enough of this and I'm going to tell you why.

I'm disabled. My three children are disabled.
I am a member of this forum just as much as any other person here. My thoughts are just as relevant as yours. My family experiences are just as relevant as any other poster on this board.

How dare you tell me my parenting experience isn't relevant? Parents like me despite being a relative minority aren't that few around here. We have just as much right to share our experiences on these boards as everyone else, it is an open forum.

So how dare you tell me I can't post about cuts to disability provision, services and benefits. They are just as relevant as the experiences of the next parent. They have a place on this forum just as much as the opinions of others. How dare you tell me I can't mention experiences I've had with my children in public on 'naughty child' threads? When these things ACTUALLY HAPPEN and I'm trying to present an alternative view.

Yet you use phrases like 'SN brigade'. You tell us it's 'not about disability' when actually in real life yes it is no matter how much you might think it shouldn't be.

Undermining experiences I've had and other families like mine is downright ignorant. It's othering and bigoted.

I will defend my family forever.

How dare you.

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 01/07/2015 12:35

Yes, people think it's just 'words on a screen' and they say things that they wouldn't dream of saying in real life.

DixieNormas · 01/07/2015 12:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DixieNormas · 01/07/2015 12:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

elementofsurprise · 01/07/2015 12:48

LotusLight Those with disabilities need not fear that the Tories want to be rid of the welfare state. We want to keep it.

I am going to try and explain this very carefully and politely, because despite what the Tories say, they are screwing over disabled people massively.

When they talk of helping "the most disabled" it is exactly that - the most disabled, and they will be supported to have a basic existence. Anything less than terminal illness or multiple severe incapacitiating illness/disability, and no concessions made at all, or support offered. It's incredibly all-or-nothing, and thus someone such as myself who is trying to get better - and reach that ideological hallowed ground of becoming a taxpayer - is finding the journey much tougher than it would have been previously.

Firstly, mental health services have been cut, which has resulted in me being shuffled between waiting lists/taken off lists as services close or 'restructure', told I'm having treatment or support that's then been cut, and so on for almost five years. [Incidentally that's five years of benefits, amongst other costs.]

Fortunately, my - by now long - history plus a decent parting letter to support my PIP reconsideration, means I did get awarded PIP which I use to pay for private therapy. [Those with disabilities requiring paid carers will find the money barely stretches; I'm lucky in that regard.] Note I write "PIP reconsideration" - I was not awarded it at first assessment, despite providing all the evidence at this stage. Even then I do not qualify for the mobility element (did under DLA). The nature of my illness means I tend to hide away when unwell/incapable, and I budget well for the other times - but again someone with a physical disability would be forced into a really restricted life because of the high bar set for PIP, mobility in particular.

Housing benefit rules have changed too. I'm in private rented where the equivalent of 'bedroom tax' has been around for years. But it's the new under-35 rule that's been a nightmare. I have been forced to share accommodation with some deeply unsuitable people, and even become homeless as a result, considerably worsening my mental health. And I guess I was a 'deeply unsuitable' person for others to share with too! Only by being disabled enough to qualify for PIP does this restriction lift, and I am able to rent my own flat. But when I start to get better, or even before I was quite so unwell, I was not 'disabled enough' to get HB for a self-contained property, despite it being something that makes a vast difference. See what I mean about all-or-nothing?

And then there's ESA. Didn't get any points at all then got put in the Support Group on appeal. The whole sickening merry-go-round. Makes you terrified to try to improve your situaion, in case it's taken as evidence of fitness-to-work, and you're suddenly on JSA, making it impossible to make up HB shortfalls, and expected to do things you're not yet capable of with the threat of harsh sanctions and destitution should you fail. Wow, my depression has lifted just thinking about it! Wink

So anyway - must keep trying. Hopefully be able to work part time in a while, then can ease up to full time. That's what the disability element of Working Tax Credit is for, it kicks in at 16 hours rather than the usual 30 [soon to be 35]. But no - under Universal Credit [and there's a waste of £££'s] there is no allowance for this, no equivalent. Again, it's all or nothing, you must be too ill/disabled to work, or working full time.

Oh, and the majority of people considered "unfit for work" by the high standards of ESA are put into the work-related group. Where they can be sanctioned for not complying with various activities, including up to 30hrs a week workfare for an indefinite period. Because the Tories have redefined this kind of work as "work related activity", so can get around the "unfit to work" ruling.

Can you really not see anything completely fucking sinister a bit off with that?

Oh, and I have my plans, I am trying to get out of this, it's just that the Tories have really stacked the odds against me.

Mrsjayy · 01/07/2015 12:49

Dx of Asd and other conditions used to happen at school age least its changing I knew my dd wasnt developing properly at around 2.5 but she wasnt diagnosed until she was 6 she has dyspraxia.if i had asked on a forum about it i would have got support but also I would have had things thrown at me like she is just a baby you are looking for problems etc etc but thats the nature of furums isn't it ?

JonSnowKnowsNowt · 01/07/2015 12:58

I'm with you, OP. I started a similar thread sometime last year, which didn't get a lot of interest. Disability is a part of the general human experience. If you have a disability it affects every aspect of your life. Everyone with a disability is different, like everyone who doesn't (yet) have one. There is a huge, varied, complex web of experience that can't just be dismissed with one generic 'disabled' label.

There is a massive 'othering' "non-disabled us" / "disabled them" tendency on MN. Disability, like gender or sexuality or race, is a part of life, and shouldn't be shut off.

GrumpyOldBiddy2 · 01/07/2015 13:09

HazeyJane
I'm not sure what you mean by why.

hazeyjane · 01/07/2015 13:22

Oh god, i'm sorry, the why was supposed to be to I'mExcited! Not you, Grumpy, forgive me, the heat has turned my brain into halloumi cheese.

Mrsjayy · 01/07/2015 13:24

You know what pisses me right off i have read. well disability is a construct of society or some such twaddle that was my How dare you moment on mumsnet

bialystockandbloom · 01/07/2015 13:44

bishop ha ha
Apple autocorrect refused to allow me to drop the 'o' from 'count', evidently Grin

bialystockandbloom · 01/07/2015 13:57

dixie that thread you mentioned about the christening/nap is a really good example actually. Not only has it got loads of outright fucking nasty and thoughtless comments about the OP being "precious", but also many others which aren't so overtly offensive, but still proving the point of this OP about "othering".

ie loads of "YANBU because of the autism" but "YABU if ds didn't have autism". Well that is totally irrelevant isn't it, because the OP's ds does have autism. He is not a different species of homo sapien. He is a person, with a condition that means situations and people should be accommodating, not by treating him the same as everyone else, but by treating him how he needs to be treated. He is just as much a part of our society, our community, and our world as anyone else. He is not "other". Being treated inclusively is different from being treated 'equally' - or rather, being equal does not mean being the same.

JonSnowKnowsNowt · 01/07/2015 14:14

MrsJayy - I think you might be meaning what's often called the 'social model' of disability. This was defined by a (disabled) campaigner in the 1980s and has come to replace the 'medical model' of disability.

In a nutshell, the social model separates someone's impairments (e.g. blindness/no arms/non-working legs etc.) from their disabilities (can't safely cross the main road to get to the shops / can't cook a meal for themselves / can't walk to their workplace).

So, while the "medical" impairment is unchanged, how disabled someone is by it depends a lot on the society around them. So, in my examples above, the blind person is less disabled if a proper crossing with beeping green man is put on the road. The armless person is less disabled if a carer comes in at times convenient to the armless person and makes them meals. The person with non-working legs is less disabled if there is a smooth, step-free, fully wheelchair-accessible route to their workplace. The more inclusive society becomes in terms of technology, building design, town planning, transport accessibility etc. etc. and in terms of general attitudes towards disability, then the less "disabled" people with impairments are.

I am disabled myself, by the way, (almost blind) and have done quite a bit of academic research in this area. I think if anyone says 'disability is just a social construct' then that's ridiculous. But, there is a good argument for saying that disability is to impairment as gender is to sex. There is a difference between biological facts and the knock-on effects that society makes of them. If that makes sense...

DixieNormas · 01/07/2015 14:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeyondDoesBootcamp · 01/07/2015 14:22

Yyyyy!!!

Benefit cuts. "Oh we're not talking about people with disabilities". So never mind the £x a month child tax credit potentially being cut, that i get on top of my (support group) esa, that i need to feed my children. Idiots.

BeyondDoesBootcamp · 01/07/2015 14:23

And for element's epic post :)

BeyondDoesBootcamp · 01/07/2015 14:24

(I actually cant applaude. Hope the dwp dont see that post and sanction me!)

Mrsjayy · 01/07/2015 14:27

Yy i know what the social model is i was quite militant in the 80s iit just really annoyed me when somebody took it out of context iyswim i think i did all my fighting back then and as i said just weary now

JonSnowKnowsNowt · 01/07/2015 14:38

I can sympathise with that MrsJayy. I think that a lot of the time, the terminology is mis-used, to give an impression of 'empowering' disabled people while doing exactly the opposite.

bumbleymummy · 01/07/2015 14:53

Is that their intent though? Maybe they are misusing it but they may be trying to be supportive?

BishopBrennansArse · 01/07/2015 15:08

Oh no. It's all "you wanted the same as us so I get to use your loo/stop you getting on the bus with your wheelchair/anyfuckingentitled thing" and then call disabled people 'entitled'.

OP posts:
GrumpyOldBiddy2 · 01/07/2015 15:17

HazeyJane - glad it's not just me!!

MiscellaneousAssortment · 01/07/2015 17:40

Yup totally agree. Here was my 'social impairment' for the day which turned a hospital appointment into a demoralising and painful event which means I'm a lot less likely to venture out again.

This is what being disabled means to me (taken from another thread but can't retype):

Set out to hosp appointment on my mobility scooter, leaving 30 mins spare as I always have to being disabled. I really wish I'd stayed at home! In spite of all the prep, there's not much anyone can do in this weather, with 2l salted water, blood pressure & migraine pills, compression stockings , ice packs strapped to back & neck... Walking stick and opiates etc.

I was then late due to a couple of rubbish things which happened purely because Im disabled... No other reason. Firstly as a pavement was closed for road works. but no ramps had been put down, couldn't get the road workers attention, so then I got stuck trying to reverse back 50 yards to the last dropped kerb except noone would let me as was a busy high street & people were banging into me, swearing at me, my neck is injured and I've trapped a nerve in my back. Argh!

Anyway was stressed & hurting from this then 5 mins late and trying to go down the corridor to outpatients after checking in, then a random woman started to lay into me for being on a mobility scooter in a hospital and that I was going to run her over. Btw she was no where near me and not even in my path, I actually had to turn in a circle and go through a doorway to hear what she was saying! Wish I hadn't bothered but I couldn't hear her and I thought she was saying something useful/ important/ needed help. How could I know she just wanted to put the boot in. A nurse came to join us and started to take the piss out of my driving - I was stationary at the time (& am a bloody good driver thanks). I think he got the wrong end of the stick and was clumsily trying to resolve the situation. So I ended up dissolving into tears and trying to get away, except this woman was coming after me shouting at me and the nurse was trying to stop me getting away trying to say 'they were only teasing' etc, and I bloody started howling about people who thought they can mock me just cos I can't walk.

The nurse was apologising (not his fault), but really loudly and the whole waiting room staring at the lunatic sobbing on a scooter. It was hideous.

Anyway to top it all off, the nurse didn't tell the consultant I arrived and was waiting, so he thought I was a no show and carried on down his list, although he'd been running 15 mins late anyway so my 5 mins would have been absorbed.

The only reason I got seen at all was that I asked a nurse whether I could go to the loo as was desperate, and she asked the consultant when I'd be seen - he didn't know I was there until then! I was really rattled and shaking and sweating and didn't really come over well. Ah bugger.

Garlick · 01/07/2015 17:54

not treating him the same as everyone else, but by treating him how he needs to treated in order to participate fully.

For a long time, I genuinely believed people just did not get inclusivity, and wasted a lot of energy trying to clarify ^^ that. After a particularly long & nasty thread on here I finally realised many/most folks don't get it because they don't want to. Most people, I fear, will be all nice and understanding of people with disabilities until we inconvenience them. Then we should "play by the same rules as everyone else" - thus giving the lie to all pretence of inclusiveness.

Garlick · 01/07/2015 17:57

Oh, Misc :( Flowers

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 01/07/2015 18:11

Most people, I fear, will be all nice and understanding of people with disabilities until we inconvenience them. Then we should "play by the same rules as everyone else" - thus giving the lie to all pretence of inclusiveness.

This x 10000000